OL Tim Gardner

[Crimson and Cream 5,782]

We are all entitled to our own opinion and all I'm saying is I see nothing wrong with allowing someone like Tim to join the program. Obviously because he has been in trouble and kicked off another program, he would be on a shorter leash than other players. But I trust the coaching staff to make the right calls when recruiting some these kids, they can judge their character a lot better than any of us that don't have face-to-face interaction with them.

This is where I'm at. CKW seems like a no nonsense kind of coach, as evidenced by him suspending all those players at the beginning of the season without there even being any publicly known reasoning. I trust that if one of our student-athletes isn't fulfilling his duties, he will not be donning the cream and crimson. Gardner made a mistake at Ohio St., was punished, and has a second chance here. I believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance, hopefully he makes the most of it.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

All I have to say is his charge at OSU was not as serious as what has happened with star players under urban currently. Let me think we have a DUI or whatever, some other driving violations..... Just on-top of some. And he did go to Milford Prep just saying so do research. He played at Milford. So check mate there and then if we are holding players accountable to all levels. Then should let yogi been let go..... (Yes this isn't football related but it is relevant to your argument). All I'm saying is why is this now just being brought up. The kid is actually a good kid and down to earth. My best friend and old teammate is best friends with him (Deandre Herron). So yeah I'm not seeing your argument here.

Yeah, and if the kids getting DWIs and DUIs get to stay on the team, what does that say about Tim's charge? Granted, we have kids with the same on our team and did on our basketball team. You say his charge wasn't as serious, but obstruction can be a huge charge or a pretty minor charge. In Ohio, he could have told the police he was over 21 at a party or he could have been asked to stop and fled or affirmatively intervened into another case and misled the police. We have no idea exactly what he did, but we do know he was kicked off the team while people who were charged with assault weren't. That's all we have to indicate the charge. Since you have insider information I would love to hear the whole story.

 

And, I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year between his arrest and commitment. Do you have other information? Because if he was arrested in July 2013 and signed in December 2013 (and enrolled in January 2014) then I'm not seeing how he could have spent a year at Milford between July 2013 and December 2013. So... check mate I guess? Are we saying checkmate now?

 

Does Yogi have a second offense after he was arrested? I believe my standard is "don't recruit kids who were just kicked off other teams for an arrest and if you get arrested, but stay on the team, don't blow your second chance". Yogi is still not blowing his second chance as far as I know. Do you think Stan should have been kicked off the team after his arrest and suspension?

 

This is just now being brought up because C&C asked whatever happened to him.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

This is where I'm at. CKW seems like a no nonsense kind of coach, as evidenced by him suspending all those players at the beginning of the season without there even being any publicly known reasoning. I trust that if one of our student-athletes isn't fulfilling his duties, he will not be donning the cream and crimson. Gardner made a mistake at Ohio St., was punished, and has a second chance here. I believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance, hopefully he makes the most of it.

And all I'm saying is if we want to have a football program held to the same standard as our other programs, we can't be second-chance university. If we have to reassure ourselves that the recruit only made a mistake (5 months earlier) and totally learned his lesson, then maybe we should at least do it with someone who is going to start.

 

And that Tim's on his third chance not second (arrest then suspension). 

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

I have always viewed his dismissal from OSU as a scapegoat move. Can't prove it though.

[Brass Cannon 24,372]

I have always viewed his dismissal from OSU as a scapegoat move. Can't prove it though.

Judging by his play gotta wonder if he wasn't used as an example, plus had the benefit of freeing up a scholarship. 

[lucel15 3,052]

Yeah, and if the kids getting DWIs and DUIs get to stay on the team, what does that say about Tim's charge? Granted, we have kids with the same on our team and did on our basketball team. You say his charge wasn't as serious, but obstruction can be a huge charge or a pretty minor charge. In Ohio, he could have told the police he was over 21 at a party or he could have been asked to stop and fled or affirmatively intervened into another case and misled the police. We have no idea exactly what he did, but we do know he was kicked off the team while people who were charged with assault weren't. That's all we have to indicate the charge. Since you have insider information I would love to hear the whole story.

And, I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year between his arrest and commitment. Do you have other information? Because if he was arrested in July 2013 and signed in December 2013 (and enrolled in January 2014) then I'm not seeing how he could have spent a year at Milford between July 2013 and December 2013. So... check mate I guess? Are we saying checkmate now?

Does Yogi have a second offense after he was arrested? I believe my standard is "don't recruit kids who were just kicked off other teams for an arrest and if you get arrested, but stay on the team, don't blow your second chance". Yogi is still not blowing his second chance as far as I know. Do you think Stan should have been kicked off the team after his arrest and suspension?

This is just now being brought up because C&C asked whatever happened to him.

Ik what his story is but that's not for me to tell.bi believe in CKW and I don't think he would have allowed him to come on if he saw any bad signs. I think CKW has higher standards when it comes to past, present, and future. Yeah maybe he wanted to help this kid out but I don't think he would put the institution at risk. All I'm saying is the kid did play at Milford, and we right him off because a bigger football school kicked him out..... And by check mate he did play at Milford. He can always enroll early.

[lucel15 3,052]

Yeah, and if the kids getting DWIs and DUIs get to stay on the team, what does that say about Tim's charge? Granted, we have kids with the same on our team and did on our basketball team. You say his charge wasn't as serious, but obstruction can be a huge charge or a pretty minor charge. In Ohio, he could have told the police he was over 21 at a party or he could have been asked to stop and fled or affirmatively intervened into another case and misled the police. We have no idea exactly what he did, but we do know he was kicked off the team while people who were charged with assault weren't. That's all we have to indicate the charge. Since you have insider information I would love to hear the whole story.

And, I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year between his arrest and commitment. Do you have other information? Because if he was arrested in July 2013 and signed in December 2013 (and enrolled in January 2014) then I'm not seeing how he could have spent a year at Milford between July 2013 and December 2013. So... check mate I guess? Are we saying checkmate now?

Does Yogi have a second offense after he was arrested? I believe my standard is "don't recruit kids who were just kicked off other teams for an arrest and if you get arrested, but stay on the team, don't blow your second chance". Yogi is still not blowing his second chance as far as I know. Do you think Stan should have been kicked off the team after his arrest and suspension?

This is just now being brought up because C&C asked whatever happened to him.

Heck I could enroll in January if I wanted to walk on after getting in trouble 5 mths before. I could've gone prep and then said eh I did well and enroll early.

[johnsoniu 6,324]

I've always held that Tim was a scapegoat, especially with his arrest coming on the heels of two All Americans running afoul.

 

It is a valid point that others with seemingly more severe transgressions weren't dismissed, but Urban has repeatedly demonstrated over his career that he has the moral compass of Sea slug. So there's that.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Ik what his story is but that's not for me to tell.bi believe in CKW and I don't think he would have allowed him to come on if he saw any bad signs. I think CKW has higher standards when it comes to past, present, and future. Yeah maybe he wanted to help this kid out but I don't think he would put the institution at risk. All I'm saying is the kid did play at Milford, and we right him off because a bigger football school kicked him out..... And by check mate he did play at Milford. He can always enroll early.

No one ever said he didn't play at Milford. I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year before he committed to Indiana. So, you're playing chess against an empty board because you have no opponent on whether he played at Milford.

 

I don't know about CKW's standards or even his ability to judge character with Allen, Green, or Griffith. And the institution isn't put at risk by bringing in kids with bad backgrounds, just the prestige, honor, and respect of the program. Since, our football program is widely considered to have none of those things, people just ignore the problems. I bet you could ask a dozen people in the Hall tonight their feelings on Antonio Allen and get fewer than half who even know who he is.

 

And just so we're clear, I'm saying he doesn't meet the standards I would like the program to have because he was arrested fewer than 6 months prior to his signing with us. If Alkins is arrested tomorrow and other schools back off, I don't want him either. If Lagow had been arrested in July, I would not want us recruiting him either. His being kicked out of OSU is circumstantial evidence showing the seriousness of the offense, it is not itself the issue.

 

 

Heck I could enroll in January if I wanted to walk on after getting in trouble 5 mths before. I could've gone prep and then said eh I did well and enroll early.

 

Cool. That wouldn't be at all relevant though, unless someone said there was a year between when you were in trouble and when you joined the team. They'd still be wrong.

 

I'm not surprised by the attitudes people have about this, just disappointed. It disappoints me to see people who get so fired up over the smallest possible slight to the basketball program (our strength coach stood up!) be so blase toward the recruitment of players who were recently arrested just because it's football. I know there is always the urge to justify adding someone with recent troubles to the team by saying they weren't really so bad and deserve a second chance, but I'm surprised to see the "well we just don't know" justification for someone who also used up their second chance (this year's suspension) and barely even sees the field.

 

I think I've made my feelings clear, even with all the possible justifications, it bugs me to swoop in on a player who was just arrested. Especially if you're just going to have him on the bench for a few years. It screams of desperation and that's not what I want Indiana football to stand for, it's not what I want any Indiana program to stand for, not our baseball team or basketball or water polo. I'm all for second chances and I would feel differently about a remote past (if he really had a year between arrest and committing even), but "oh hey, this player was just kicked off OSU let's give him a call" is gross to me. You're welcome to disagree.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I've always held that Tim was a scapegoat, especially with his arrest coming on the heels of two All Americans running afoul.

 

It is a valid point that others with seemingly more severe transgressions weren't dismissed, but Urban has repeatedly demonstrated over his career that he has the moral compass of Sea slug. So there's that.

And I can see someone being scapegoated, my biggest issue with this theory is just that I work with this kind of thing all the time in an employment setting. The one thing I cannot stress to employers enough is never to punish someone for the transgressions of others without dealing the punishment out in accordance with their acts. All you're doing is drawing attention to the employees you're trying to protect.

 

No one who was upset at Urban was mollified by the dismissal of Gardner and no one who was willing to look the other way for the other players cared what Gardner did. He plays for us and how many of us even remembered it? I literally only remembered because Urban dismissed him and not the other three and I follow OSU football pretty closely. I would have never thought of him again if Urban just put him back onto the bench.

[johnsoniu 6,324]

And I can see someone being scapegoated, my biggest issue with this theory is just that I work with this kind of thing all the time in an employment setting. The one thing I cannot stress to employers enough is never to punish someone for the transgressions of others without dealing the punishment out in accordance with their acts. All you're doing is drawing attention to the employees you're trying to protect.

 

 

Are you saying you have trouble believing he was scapegoated because scapegoating is a poor leadership/management model? It IS a poor practice, but it most certainly exists in businesses and enterprises everywhere. And that includes successful ones, like Urban Meyer's football programs. I've seen businesses whose environment would be a business ethics professors nightmare. But they were successful. A bunch of miserable, stressed out managers, but they were "winning".

 

I like your position on the standards and values that you would like to see from our FB program. It's good to have passionate fans that care about doing it the right way. In the not too distant past I would have settled for some fans, period lol

Good discussion :drinks:

[Berghoosier 116]

but "oh hey, this player was just kicked off OSU let's give him a call" is gross to me. You're welcome to disagree.

But that's not what happened. CKW and crew were recruiting Tim pretty hard out of HS. They had a previous relationship with him. Football is different than most sports. The roster is immensely larger than other college sports. I implore you to sift through the 105 of other similar situated university and come up with 105 shiny backgrounds.

[Dannyjzur 10]

I was in a small 20 person class with Tim last semester. He's a nice guy. Didn't speak much but is definitely a huge guy. He couldn't fit in any of the desks and it was always a comedic moment when the class would pause due to him needing to readjust how he was sitting and would accidentally move the whole row of people in front of him. But I hope he will be able to develop into a solid player for us. He has all the physical tools to be dominant. Just needs someone to push him and encourage him to work his hardest each and every play. Something I don't think he did last season just from the few times I watched him play. Hopefully with feeney coming back he will be able to keep our O-line strong and help develop someone like Tim into the player he can become.

[323SGrant 1,176]

Yep. I say give kids another chance and every situation should be considered independently.