Illinois at IU Postgame Thread

[JSHoosier 20,912]

All_Hoosiers...this is NOT directed at you in any way, but since you raised the point:

 

Hoosier fanbase overreaction #1: Turnovers are killing us. Why can't we do something about all dem cursed turnovers!!?!!

 

Hoosier fanbase overreaction #2: Why is that walk-on Howard getting all dem minutes instead of talented kids like Perea, Davis, and the rejuvenated Hollowell!!?!!

#1  We won so our turnover issues are an overreaction?  Not hardly.  As has been pointed out, turnovers absolutely have killed us at times this year.  We lost @ UI because of 23 turnovers.  I wouldn't call it an overreaction even if we have been better lately (although still turning the ball over a little too much).

 

#2  I agree that is an overreaction.

[Josh 12,778]

 

 

I'd also like to add that Stan Robinson was excellent on both ends of the floor tonight. He still takes more jump shots than we may like but he is the best 2-guard on the team.

 

 

 

2 guards can hit outside shots.  I see Stan as more of a 1.

[LIHoosier 26,923]

And, for all the NBA fans reading this, next time you watch a Rockets game, watch James Harden and try to tell me that he and Stan don't play almost identically. Harden is a better outside shooter, and a little taller, but those guys going to the basket look nearly identical and they both can defend anyone (though Harden often chooses not to). Oh, and I love beating Illinois. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

If Stan wants to even draw a comparison to Harden, he has to really improve his FT%. Harden shoots around 85% at the line and with the ease that Stan gets to the basket, he should be shooting a lot better than 51%. If Stan can get his % in the 70's in the future; he'll be a great player.

[Hovadipo 58,011]

[quote name="LIHoosier" post="32840" timestamp="1390826981"]If Stan wants to even draw a comparison to Harden, he has to really improve his FT%. Harden shoots around 85% at the line and with the ease that Stan gets to the basket, he should be shooting a lot better than 51%. If Stan can get his % in the 70's in the future; he'll be a great player.[/quote]

I agree. That's why I mentioned outside shooting. It was more of a comment on how similarly they attack the basket and find/make lanes that a lot of people can't. Them both being left handed probably accounts for some of the similarity too.


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[BlueDevil 9,068]

[quote name="Hovadipo" post="32850" timestamp="1390835921"]I agree. That's why I mentioned outside shooting. It was more of a comment on how similarly they attack the basket and find/make lanes that a lot of people can't. Them both being left handed probably accounts for some of the similarity too.


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Watching them both go up for layups is like identical almost


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[Scooter D 928]

As other have stated, its a WIN and I will take it.  Overall, I think that they played well on the defensive end and after the initial flurry of TOs, they got it pretty well under control...although they still had a few that were completely unforced, but overall, still an improvement and I am becomign less concerned that I was.  If they can put on a run, I think that they may have a shot at the NCAA. 

 

A few other random thoughts:

 

First, I think that Crean was the right hire to get IU back on the right path, but I am still not sure if he is the right guy to get us back to where we all expect the team to be (consistentely in the tourney, always in the hunt for the Big 10 title, Top 25 teams, etc.)  I love that the guy loves the school, respects the tradition, and is passionate about the game and his players. 

 

Second, things that I don't like:  His lack of vision that the team needs a better half court offense against zone and man.  Vonleh had a total of 6 shots the whole game...that is completley unaccpetable, but we all saw the same thing with Cody last season.  I can't even count the number of times last year that we were all screaming that Cody needed more touches.  This is a product of his offiensive scheme.  When you have a talented big man like Cody and Noah, you need to get them as many touches as possible.  Otherwise, they will stop working for you. This is not rocket science, this is fundamental.  Maybe this is on Yogi, as the PG needs to recognize this, as he is an extnesion of the coach on the floor, who knows.  I think that this may also be/going to be a problem with Crean recruting and retaining big men.  Also, I am sure that everyone saw Troy's turn around jump shout at abut 5-7 feet...where has that been all season?  With his length, that should be a go to play, but again the half court offense limits that. 

 

Lastly, I am getting sick of hearing that IU is not a good perimeter shooting team, which I agree with, but I think that this is part of Crean's recrutiing problem.  He seems to like athletic wing players (Troy, Stan, JH), which those players look good on the break and going to the bucket...a la Troy's dunk last night, and that may have worked in the former Big East, but not in the Big 10, where they actually play defense.  He has to get shooters first, otherwise, as we have seen, defenses are just going to sag into the lane, so you can't drive and force you to shoot the outside jumper.  If a wing player can't consistentley hit a jumper outside of 10 feet, then you have got to pass on him.  Now, I hope that Stan and Troy can develop that outside jumper/3 pointer, if so they will be dramatically better and that much more of a threat, but I just don't know if they have that in them. 

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

2 guards can hit outside shots.  I see Stan as more of a 1.

 

Ideally, 2 guards can hit shots from outside, I agree with that. But on THIS team, Stan is our best 2 guard. That may change next year when JBJ arrives.

 

My hope for JBJ is to have a Garry Harris-like freshman season.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

 

Second, things that I don't like:  His lack of vision that the team needs a better half court offense against zone and man.  Vonleh had a total of 6 shots the whole game...that is completley unaccpetable, but we all saw the same thing with Cody last season.  I can't even count the number of times last year that we were all screaming that Cody needed more touches.  This is a product of his offiensive scheme.  When you have a talented big man like Cody and Noah, you need to get them as many touches as possible.  Otherwise, they will stop working for you. This is not rocket science, this is fundamental.  Maybe this is on Yogi, as the PG needs to recognize this, as he is an extnesion of the coach on the floor, who knows.  I think that this may also be/going to be a problem with Crean recruting and retaining big men.  Also, I am sure that everyone saw Troy's turn around jump shout at abut 5-7 feet...where has that been all season?  With his length, that should be a go to play, but again the half court offense limits that. 

 

 

I don't think Crean will have trouble recruiting big men if he has two straight years of them going as lottery picks (assuming Noah leaves). I agree that Noah needs more touches, but UI obviously planned to limit Noah offensively by collapsing 2 or 3 guys on him in the post. Noah also didn't do himself any favors with some unnecessary dribbles. 

[Josh 12,778]

2 guards can hit outside shots.  I see Stan as more of a 1.

 

 

Ideally, 2 guards can hit shots from outside, I agree with that. But on THIS team, Stan is our best 2 guard. That may change next year when JBJ arrives.

 

My hope for JBJ is to have a Garry Harris-like freshman season.

 

You and I have different definitions of a 2 guard.  Perhaps we're from different generations.

 

When I played, a 2 guard was known for his shooting.  A good 2 guard could make a shot from anywhere on the court.  It was the primary definition of a 2 guard.  

 

Since Stan can't hit a shot outside of two feet, but he's a good slasher, he fits the definition of a 1.  On our team, Yogi, Gordon and possibly Sheehey would fit the definition of a 2 guard better than Stan imo.

 

Stan plays more like a 1 in my book.  Ironically, I wonder what would happen if Stan was the 1 and Yogi was the 2?

[Stuhoo 83,406]

Y'all are attaching far more importance to position than a basketball coach would.

 

Coaches don't think about "1 guard, 2 guard". They think about the skill sets of their players, and try to put those skill sets into positions where they can succeed. Those skills can and will differ on the offensive and defensive ends of the court. The smaller players tend to be quicker, handle the ball better and score from outside more often, but as long as a team is complete in its ability to get those skills from somewhere, it's all good.

 

Between Stan, JB, and Yogi, next year we will hopefully have multiple smaller players who handle the ball, make outside shots, get to the rim, and defend a variety of size and quickness sets from our opponents' smaller players.

[JSHoosier 20,912]

I don't think Crean will have trouble recruiting big men if he has two straight years of them going as lottery picks (assuming Noah leaves). I agree that Noah needs more touches, but UI obviously planned to limit Noah offensively by collapsing 2 or 3 guys on him in the post. Noah also didn't do himself any favors with some unnecessary dribbles. 

It won't help him get a good big when they see they won't get enough touches in his offense.  We've had this same problem the last 3 years, at this point it's probably a problem with his system.

[BlueDevil 9,068]

[quote name="Stuhoo" post="32881" timestamp="1390857098"]Y'all are attaching far more importance to position than a basketball coach would.

Coaches don't think about "1 guard, 2 guard". They think about the skill sets of their players, and try to put those skill sets into positions where they can succeed. Those skills can and will differ on the offensive and defensive ends of the court. The smaller players tend to be quicker, handle the ball better and score from outside more often, but as long as a team is complete in its ability to get those skills from somewhere, it's all good.

Between Stan, JB, and Yogi, next year we will hopefully have multiple smaller players who handle the ball, make outside shots, get to the rim, and defend a variety of size and quickness sets from our opponents smaller
players.[/quote]

Hoping that blackmon jr is our version of Gary Harris


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[Stuhoo 83,406]

Hoping that blackmon jr is our version of Gary Harris


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Not from what I've heard/read. 

 

JB2 is pretty special, but Harris is a little bigger and stronger.

As a catch and shoot mega-star with lots of other skills? JB can be really special.

 

I think of JB2 's game sorta like what I saw (and loved) when we went up against Shabazz Napier earlier this year.