IUWBB @ Minnesota - Sunday, 02.09.25 @ 3:00 ET on B1G+

[Aaron 4,577]

This was an all systems failure today on both ends of court. Minnesota is much improved this year and very likely heading to NCAA Tournament. However, IU made them look far better then they are today. 

Every time you think this Indiana team is better or worse than a 9-11 seed in NCAA Tourney they have a game to show you they are just that. Don't be surprised if this starts four losses in five games with at Michigan, Purdue (This is 99% likely a win but not helpful) OSU, at MSU.

Will make them 16-11 and 8-8 heading into the final couple of conference games. This is identical to 2018-2019 when IU sat on the bubble and had to beat a very solid Iowa squad at home and pick up an additional win against a bad Purdue team + win first Big Ten Tourney game to punch ticket to NCAA's.

Team will almost certainly be in same spot now needing to beat Maryland who is very similar to Iowa, a bad Purdue squad, and first game of Big Ten Tourney to secure a March Madness bid. This athletic season at IU feels like 2018-2019 in almost every way with volleyball being pretty mediocre, women's soccer being awful, men's soccer winning Big Ten (although that soccer squad was much more a contender nationally), men's basketball having a long losing streak, women's basketball squeaking into tourney, baseball winning Big Ten, and softball having a really nice spring, 

All of these things have either happened or feel like they are very likely to occur. There might be similarities in some of the other sports as well but only looked at the major ones.

Big difference is the struggle in men's basketball this time will lead to a new coach and for that we can all be thankful:).          

[Aaron 4,577]

21 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yeah, down yeah for the ladies. Not terrible but just not that great either. Seems pretty good odds to get into the tournament but Moren will have some things to figure out in the off-season.


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100% accurate and this year is exactly like 2018-2019 as I posted.

It starts with getting a Big Ten level starting center in portal. Lily Meister not making the step forward everyone thought is biggest culprit but there are some other minor things as well. Moren's system relies on a center drawing attention to spring shooters open. She has the shooters but not the post player to draw attention.

The fact Moren has them two non-Purdue wins from a sixth straight NCAA bid is actually fairly impressive given she is essentially trying to run an offense with a hand tied behind her back. I thought Lily would make leap forward to be a starting level center and just has not happened which is no one's fault and Moren has been really hard on her for good reason if you watch her postgame pressers online.   

[NatHillIV 76]

I personally don't think Moren calling Lilly out publicly is a very good strategy.
Lilly is not the only problem. 
She's shorter than either Garzon or Parrish, not very stout, and to expect her to bang around with 6'5 and larger really strong women is a lot to ask.
Her stats are very close to Stripling.  Holmes spoiled us.  Not many girls the size of Lilly or Holmes play center well in the big10.
We're overly dependent on 3 point shooting.  When they're falling, we're tough.  When they're not, it's tough for us.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 92,234]

Purely as a point of information, Wiseman at 6'4" is the tallest player listed on the roster. Lilly, Yarden, Karoline and Fenn all listed at 6'3".  Parrish listed at 6'2".  

Absolutely agree that she's light in the britches and does get pushed around and yes, we did get spoiled big time with Mack.

https://iuhoosiers.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster

[Aaron 4,577]

4 hours ago, NatHillIV said:

I personally don't think Moren calling Lilly out publicly is a very good strategy.
Lilly is not the only problem. 
She's shorter than either Garzon or Parrish, not very stout, and to expect her to bang around with 6'5 and larger really strong women is a lot to ask.
Her stats are very close to Stripling.  Holmes spoiled us.  Not many girls the size of Lilly or Holmes play center well in the big10.
We're overly dependent on 3 point shooting.  When they're falling, we're tough.  When they're not, it's tough for us.

Lily is def not the ONLY problem. However, she is the biggest one and not having a starting level center in Moren's offensive system makes it quite tough to run and makes her stand out. The fact Moren has made what she has of this season without a good post player shows what a great coach she is. 

I think Moren in some ways feels very frustrated by Lily as she was handed keys to the kingdom to anchor that critical post position. No one expected her to be Holmes but everyone thought she was capable of making a leap forward to be a starting level Big Ten center similar to Markowski at Nebraska or Bostic at Illinois. 14 and 7 was very realistic but she has taken a step backwards. Its no ones fault and Lily deserved this opportunity, but has definitely done the opposite of making the most of it. 

Calling her out so much may not be right choice and I could go either way on that. However, if Lily didn't think she could make leap to be starter she needed to speak up so Moren could find one in portal especially knowing a good center is crucial to success in this system. If she thought she could and it just has not worked out just an unfortunate situation all around from all angles.    

[HoosierHoopster 8,669]

^^ Have been saying Moren needs to build the team in recruiting to add athleticism and height/strength. We get beat up by teams that are bigger and more athletic, that's something of a theme. We're a heck of a skilled team and Moren's an outstanding coach, but yes, we're not versatile enough to outplay teams, at least consistently, that are bigger, stronger and more athletic. Still think this is a rebuilding year of sorts. Doesn't just have to be the HS recruits, build on the foreign player recruiting etc. for more size and athleticism.

[TTT 1,404]

10 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Lily is def not the ONLY problem. However, she is the biggest one and not having a starting level center in Moren's offensive system makes it quite tough to run and makes her stand out. The fact Moren has made what she has of this season without a good post player shows what a great coach she is. 

I think Moren in some ways feels very frustrated by Lily as she was handed keys to the kingdom to anchor that critical post position. No one expected her to be Holmes but everyone thought she was capable of making a leap forward to be a starting level Big Ten center similar to Markowski at Nebraska or Bostic at Illinois. 14 and 7 was very realistic but she has taken a step backwards. Its no ones fault and Lily deserved this opportunity, but has definitely done the opposite of making the most of it. 

Calling her out so much may not be right choice and I could go either way on that. However, if Lily didn't think she could make leap to be starter she needed to speak up so Moren could find one in portal especially knowing a good center is crucial to success in this system. If she thought she could and it just has not worked out just an unfortunate situation all around from all angles.    

I never thought L.M. Proved herself other than what she is as a big ten center.  She is a back up who can play behind an excellent to great one at this level for some minutes as needed.  Her play is not a surprise though expected just a little bit better rather than what it is.

Lilly played volleyball in high school but was not ever a highly rated prospect even though she had offers.  Minnesota seemed to have chosen other options when she was being recruited.

[GloryDays 6,228]

20 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

^^ Have been saying Moren needs to build the team in recruiting to add athleticism and height/strength. We get beat up by teams that are bigger and more athletic, that's something of a theme. We're a heck of a skilled team and Moren's an outstanding coach, but yes, we're not versatile enough to outplay teams, at least consistently, that are bigger, stronger and more athletic. Still think this is a rebuilding year of sorts. Doesn't just have to be the HS recruits, build on the foreign player recruiting etc. for more size and athleticism.

I've been beating that drum for a while now.Most all of our losses are to bigger quicker teams. Surely Moren knows this so my question is why can't we recruit those type players to Bloomington?

The portal has got to come into play in a big way this off season.

[Aaron 4,577]

Hindsight is great. Clearly we know now Lily is not a starting level center. However, before season started everyone on here was hopeful she would take that leap and it just has not worked out. What Moren has accomplished without a starting level Big Ten center is truly impressive since it is crucial to her system.

Lily deserved the chance and it was no ones fault it has not worked. Coach Moren has also made it clear in her pressers on YouTube that she needs better from Lily. I fully expect her to get a starting level Big Ten center in the portal this offseason that will not be on Mackenzie Holmes' level but on Kendal Bostic (Illinois) or Alexis Markowski's (Nebraska) level and average 14 and 7 or so which is what is needed.    

Also don't forget both Makalusky and especially Caffey at guard coming in as freshman have more athleticism than past recruits and are also ranked higher. I expect Caffey to see minutes right away. Also, expect Moren to get a solid portal class like she always does.

Yarden, Shay, and Lenee (returning from season long injury) are starting level guards for next season. Just need a center and wing in portal who can slot in and team will be in very good shape to be better than this season.

[HoosierHoopster 8,669]

54 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Hindsight is great. Clearly we know now Lily is not a starting level center. However, before season started everyone on here was hopeful she would take that leap and it just has not worked out. What Moren has accomplished without a starting level Big Ten center is truly impressive since it is crucial to her system.

Lily deserved the chance and it was no ones fault it has not worked. Coach Moren has also made it clear in her pressers on YouTube that she needs better from Lily. I fully expect her to get a starting level Big Ten center in the portal this offseason that will not be on Mackenzie Holmes' level but on Kendal Bostic (Illinois) or Alexis Markowski's (Nebraska) level and average 14 and 7 or so which is what is needed.    

Also don't forget both Makalusky and especially Caffey at guard coming in as freshman have more athleticism than past recruits and are also ranked higher. I expect Caffey to see minutes right away. Also, expect Moren to get a solid portal class like she always does.

Yarden, Shay, and Lenee (returning from season long injury) are starting level guards for next season. Just need a center and wing in portal who can slot in and team will be in very good shape to be better than this season.

Yes I think we're a couple or so pieces away, bigger and more athletic forwards/wings. Bring those in and the team looks to be in good shape for a more balanced, versatile team.