Top Ten Players of the Tom Crean Era.

[FindEndNow 198]

I'm not so sure, I think Vic was definitely the better player in 2012-13. Oladipo finished #2 in the Wooden Award vote and Zeller finished #7.

Vic was a media favorite for his rise. Zeller was consistently put down by the media for whatever reason. I think how the media put Cody down had skewed people's view on him. If you go to the ITH link, a poster put up some good stats. Win shares being the biggest one.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,935]

I really hate people talking about how that team couldn't shoot. You know what you do about that? You adjust your game to fit your personnel. Every year UofL can't hit water if they were in the ocean. Yet they're good. Not having 3 point shooters is a terrible excuse. We had Yogi, Gordon, Sheehey, Etherington and Vonleh. Hollowell and Hartman. We had people who could shoot on the team. But that team was so badly misused by the coaching staff. That alone should have had people fired.

U make a good point. I agree that Vonleh was horribly misused as was everything we tried to do that year. Sheehey was flat broken much of that year. Gordon didn't shoot it much. Etherington couldn't hit a shot. Hollowell, lol. Our shooting was poor and not defended, which is why Vonleh starting shooting a few.

The point u make that is legit is UofL wins without 3 point shooting. We never had the right rotation, or anything right that season. We never adjusted our offense significantly either.

[Hovadipo 55,020]

Vic's Junior season was better than either of Cody's 2 seasons. By far. At the same time, Cody was more talented and still gave us 2 amazing years. Those 2 are so neck and neck that it's hard to even begin to pick one. Vic had a typical, nothing to see here freshman year, an on-the-rise sophomore year, then a blow-up, player of the year junior year. Cody gave us 2 years straight where he dominated at times and even when he didn't, was still either the best or second best player on the floor. I want to call it a draw, but Vic's singing ability gives him the slight edge.

[FindEndNow 198]

Vic's Junior season was better than either of Cody's 2 seasons. By far. At the same time, Cody was more talented and still gave us 2 amazing years. Those 2 are so neck and neck that it's hard to even begin to pick one. Vic had a typical, nothing to see here freshman year, an on-the-rise sophomore year, then a blow-up, player of the year junior year. Cody gave us 2 years straight where he dominated at times and even when he didn't, was still either the best or second best player on the floor. I want to call it a draw, but Vic's singing ability gives him the slight edge.

Just go check the stats. Zeller was better. His win shares is the most impressive part of it for just two years.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

No. In the NBA Vic is better. At IU it was Cody. And it wasn't very clos

Cody had a better '11-12, Vic had every bit as good, if not better 12-13

[FindEndNow 198]

Cody had a better '11-12, Vic had every bit as good, if not better 12-13

Cody was a better player over his career. Vic had about 3/4 of a season. The win shares totals are just great by Zeller which was like 14.3. Vic's wasn't quite 13.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Just go check the stats. Zeller was better. His win shares is the most impressive part of it for just two years.

What's a win share? And if it's as it sounds it should be, he and Vic should be tied

[FindEndNow 198]

What's a win share? And if it's as it sounds it should be, he and Vic should be tied

I think it was originally a baseball statistic. But takes a players performance ties it in with the success of the team.

[moyemayhem 1,283]

Just go check the stats. Zeller was better. His win shares is the most impressive part of it for just two years.

 

Win shares are a good stat, but they don't tell the whole picture.  Defensive win shares can be pretty flawed (they basically use the team's defensive scoring efficiency while the player is on the floor, in conjunction witht the players blocks and steals), and Cody was worth 2.5 WS while Vic was worth 2.7 WS in 12-13.  I think the actual difference in their defensive impact was bigger than that.  The difference in their total win shares that season was minimal (7.4 to 6.8 WS) and I don't think you can make any definitve conclusions about who performed better that season based on that alone.  I'll just say that I think you can make an argument for either player being the best during Tom Crean's tenure, because the overall difference is pretty small.

[Hovadipo 55,020]

Just go check the stats. Zeller was better. His win shares is the most impressive part of it for just two years.

"Just go check the stats" is a fantastic argument. If you don't know anything about basketball.

[FindEndNow 198]

Win shares are a good stat, but they don't tell the whole picture. Defensive win shares can be pretty flawed (they basically use the teams defensive scoring efficiency while the player is on the floor, in conjunction witht the players blocks and steals), and Cody was worth 2.5 WS while Vic was worth 2.7 WS in 12-13. I think the actual difference in their defensive impact was bigger than that. The difference in their total win shares that season was minimal (7.4 to 6.8 WS) and I don't think you can make any definitve conclusions about who performed better that season based on that alone. I'll just say that I think you can make an argument for either player being the best during Tom Crean's tenure, because the overall difference is pretty small.

Cody was actually pretty good at defense. You won't find many big men that'll hedge on a screen and pick a PG's pocket.

[FindEndNow 198]

"Just go check the stats" is a fantastic argument. If you don't know anything about basketball.

Calbert put up the best ones on ITH. I'd go check them out. He also compares Zeller to some other B1G players like Sully and Burke.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Win shares are a good stat, but they don't tell the whole picture.  Defensive win shares can be pretty flawed (they basically use the team's defensive scoring efficiency while the player is on the floor, in conjunction witht the players blocks and steals), and Cody was worth 2.5 WS while Vic was worth 2.7 WS in 12-13.  I think the actual difference in their defensive impact was bigger than that.  The difference in their total win shares that season was minimal (7.4 to 6.8 WS) and I don't think you can make any definitve conclusions about who performed better that season based on that alone.  I'll just say that I think you can make an argument for either player being the best during Tom Crean's tenure, because the overall difference is pretty small.

Well, let's hope it becomes a mute point and Thomas Bryant becomes the clear cut #1.

[Hovadipo 55,020]

Calbert put up the best ones on ITH. I'd go check them out. He also compares Zeller to some other B1G players like Sully and Burke.

But did you watch any of the games? Vic did things that don't show up in box scores. I'm not talking about stats. Did you watch him play?

[FindEndNow 198]

But did you watch any of the games? Vic did things that don't show up in box scores. I'm not talking about stats. Did you watch him play?

Yes. And so did Cody. That's what great players do.

[Hovadipo 55,020]

Yes. And so did Cody. That's what great players do.

Right. Which is what I said. Didja happen to read that last part of my post...? Or just arguing for arguing's sake again?

[FindEndNow 198]

Right. Which is what I said. Didja happen to read that last part of my post...? Or just arguing for arguing's sake again?

And when you take both into account. Cody was still better. Vic is a better player now. Though his defense slumped because of the offensive load he must carry.

[Hovadipo 55,020]

And when you take both into account. Cody was still better. Vic is a better player now. Though his defense slumped because of the offensive load he must carry.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NBA. You absolutely blow my mind.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

In fact, Cody was so much better that he was drafted a couple spots after Vic. Just check the facts people!

[FindEndNow 198]

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE NBA. You absolutely blow my mind.

And neither am i. Cody was better at IU than Vic.