IU’s basketball culture is dead (and the case for why our next coach should be given 6+ seasons)

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Letting Crean go was the right call at the time, even if I still contend it was too late. We couldn't have predicted just how fugly the next two hires would be.

I could have told you. Who in their right mind is taking just another job with delusional expectations?

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

How many mediocre coaches win the B10 outright twice and make the second week three times in a 5 year span? I’d love to have a mediocre coach right now, wouldn’t you?

Crean wasn't mediocre; he was consistently inconsistent. Solid peaks and real valleys. And he wore out his welcome after nine years. For sure, he was better than the two coaches that followed, but that doesn't mean he should have stayed after nine years.

I'm a fan of the previously stated strategy of giving each coach a fair chance to be the decades-long great coach, and when that is clearly proven to not be the case? Try, try again.

[Pagoda]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

How many mediocre coaches win the B10 outright twice and make the second week three times in a 5 year span? I’d love to have a mediocre coach right now, wouldn’t you?

'15-16 was a nice season, but schedule friendly, we were a five seed.

I can see the case to have kept Tom, but I also don't need the coach who went 15-57 in conference at Georgia.

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

They made Fred Glass fire Crean?

They supposedly made Scott Dolson hire Mike Woodson and keep him an extra year, so why not?

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

'15-16 was a nice season, but schedule friendly, we were a five seed.

I can see the case to have kept Tom, but I also don't need the coach who went 15-57 in conference at Georgia.

 

3 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

'15-16 was a nice season, but schedule friendly, we were a five seed.

I can see the case to have kept Tom, but I also don't need the coach who went 15-57 in conference at Georgia.

Wouldn’t have gone 15-57 at Georgia had IU not fired him.

[Home Jersey]

There has probably been an innumerable amount of higher quality coaches hired by other schools in the span of time since we've hired Archie, Woody, and DDV.

The problem is not fan expectations. It's hiring coaches that don't win enough. All you have to do to fix the imaginary problem of "fanbase expectations" is hire a capable coach. IU hasn't been able to do that in a long time because of either A) general incompetence B) undue internal politics.

The administration just hasn't been able to get out of their own way and the fans are exhausted by it.

Maybe it's different with DDV. But if it's not, the answer isn't to let him automatically have the better half of an entire decade. 

[Home Jersey]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

They supposedly made Scott Dolson hire Mike Woodson and keep him an extra year, so why not?

The fans who wanted Billy Donovan after Crean are the same ones who made Scott Dolson hire Woody and keep him an extra year??? That's news to me...

[Golfman25]

54 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Crean got a raw deal with Anunoby's injury, or else they absolutely would have made the tournament his final year. That would have been 5 in 6 years. There's a good chance James Blackmon Jr doesn't forego his senior year if Crean is retained and along with him you bring back senior Robert Johnson and Juwan Morgan as an upperclassmen to go with some nice young pieces in Justin Smith, DeRon Davis, and Devonte Green. Won't pretend to know what happens that year as it doesn't matter now, but have to think it's better than anything we got from Archie Miller. Had he survived, would have been interesting to see how a team full of guards and shooters would have fared with TJD commanding the middle. Add in the portal a few year later and who knows where Indiana is with Crean today, can't be worse than where we are now.

As far as a plan goes after firing Crean? Who did Glass realistically think he was going to get after firing a coach who had just previously won multiple conference championships? 

The last line is the problem. He should have known who he was going to get.  Or at least has a short list of pre screened candidates.  Not our fault he sucked.  

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

The fans who wanted Billy Donovan after Crean are the same ones who made Scott Dolson hire Woody and keep him an extra year??? That's news to me...

People, meaning the prominent boosters and figureheads surrounding Indiana basketball, not fans. 

[Golfman25]

28 minutes ago, BluegrassHoosier859 said:

Crean deserves a lot of love and appreciation from IU fans for his time here. But it was time to move on. The future of the program wasnt bright as he had really screwed up recruiting towards the end. Not to mention there were off the court issues during his time here that crean lovers forget to mention. It was the right call and his time at UGA proved it. If you think crean deserved to be the coach at iu solely becuase he won multiple (2) conference championships in 9 years unless Billy Donovan or Brad Stephens came knocking then I dont know what to tell you.

Yeah, I am no Tom Crean hater.  I actually like the dude and he was the right guy at the time.  When nobody would touch us he came to a dead program and resurrected it all because “It’s Indiana.”

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

The last line is the problem. He should have known who he was going to get.  Or at least has a short list of pre screened candidates.  Not our fault he sucked.  

Known who he was going to get and limited to who he was able to get are two different things. Just further reinforces the total disconnect from reality between IU and the rest of the college basketball world.

[EasyEJay]

8 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Known who he was going to get and limited to who he was able to get are two different things. Just further reinforces the total disconnect from reality between IU and the rest of the college basketball world.

You say IU is the leper of college basketball when it comes to college basketball coaches.

Yet the Big Ten coaches literally voted this year that its the 2nd best job in the conference. The conference itself is arguably the best / 2nd best conference in America ? 

So how did that happen? 

[AH1971]

20 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

There has probably been an innumerable amount of higher quality coaches hired by other schools in the span of time since we've hired Archie, Woody, and DDV.

The problem is not fan expectations. It's hiring coaches that don't win enough. All you have to do to fix the imaginary problem of "fanbase expectations" is hire a capable coach. IU hasn't been able to do that in a long time because of either A) general incompetence B) undue internal politics.

The administration just hasn't been able to get out of their own way and the fans are exhausted by it.

Maybe it's different with DDV. But if it's not, the answer isn't to let him automatically have the better half of an entire decade. 

What does hiring a capable coach look like? Was Hurley a capable coach after completing his 4th year without a single tournament win and two early exits as a higher seed? Would Hurley have seen a 5th season at IU? Maybe? Bet you though that all the ballknowers around here would have deemed him incapable though after two years. Just a guess.

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, EasyEJay said:

You say IU is the leper of college basketball when it comes to college basketball coaches.

Yet the Big Ten coaches literally voted this year that its the 2nd best job in the conference. The conference itself is arguably the best / 2nd best conference in America ? 

So how did that happen? 

Because the rest of the B10 wants IU to continually shuffle coaches every 3-4 years?

[Magnanimous]

1 minute ago, EasyEJay said:

You say IU is the leper of college basketball when it comes to college basketball coaches.

Yet the Big Ten coaches literally voted this year that its the 2nd best job in the conference. The conference itself is arguably the best / 2nd best conference in America ? 

So how did that happen? 

But how many would leave their program to coach m us if the job opened tomorrow?

[AH1971]

31 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Crean wasn't mediocre; he was consistently inconsistent. Solid peaks and real valleys. And he wore out his welcome after nine years. For sure, he was better than the two coaches that followed, but that doesn't mean he should have stayed after nine years.

I'm a fan of the previously stated strategy of giving each coach a fair chance to be the decades-long great coach, and when that is clearly proven to not be the case? Try, try again.

I disagree. Throw out the first 3 years of a total rebuild and Crean’s tenure was pretty damn impressive once he got his feet under him. 

[EasyEJay]

1 minute ago, Magnanimous said:

But how many would leave their program to coach m us if the job opened tomorrow?

Interesting IMO: Izzo, Painter, Gard, Underwood are the NOs

Dusty under the current circumstances is a no BUT look at Calipari leaving UK for Arkansas. There may come a time when Dusty has run his course at UM you never know but that would be years and years down the line. 

Everyone else would is a yes *Altman might not only because of how close he is to retirement.* 

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, EasyEJay said:

Interesting IMO: Izzo, Painter, Gard, Underwood are the NOs

Dusty under the current circumstances is a no BUT look at Calipari leaving UK for Arkansas. There may come a time when Dusty has run his course at UM you never know but that would be years and years down the line. 

Everyone else would is a yes *Altman might not only because of how close he is to retirement.* 

So not a top 2 job lol? Thanks. 
 

Add in McCollum who wanted nothing to do with Indiana and you’re looking at a mid-tier conference job, let alone nationally.
 

[BluegrassHoosier859]

6 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I disagree. Throw out the first 3 years of a total rebuild and Crean’s tenure was pretty damn impressive once he got his feet under him. 

If you throw out his first 3 years he was still barely above .500 in the conference. If youre going to be a coach that operates only in Highs and Lows the highs have to be higher than S16 appearances.

[EasyEJay]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So not a top 2 job lol? Thanks. 
 

Add in McCollum who wanted nothing to do with Indiana and you’re looking at a mid-tier conference job, let alone nationally.
 

The Nos come for different reasons .

Matt Painter is probably our coach if Bob Knight recruits him in HS lol but Purdue its Alma Mater. 

Gard has never step foot outside Wisconsin 

Izzo been at the place for 30 + years 

Just because they wouldn't leave for each individual reason doesn't change the perception of the job.