IUCrazy2

We are losing by 25. WTF is there to talk about.

Both the 4 point plays in this game were absolute bull ****.

Reneau needs to learn when there are 5 guys around him that chances are he has an open teammate somewhere.....

At least we aren't Maryland...

And likely a "It's the fans fault" Payne.

If only. We are underdogs to Penn State at the moment. 11th place in Big Ten but still swept our brilliant NBA mind even though they had a coaching flip this year, Penn State. I know it won't matter to the people who have already made the decision but losing to that crap @$$ team a third time in a year should be inexcusable if it occurs.

So I think the way Woodson (allegedly) views the other sports at Indiana is probably a carryover from the Knight years. I have seen it pop up from Dakich about both the football team and the women's team the past few years. When those guys were here and playing, they were it. The other sports were truly second class citizens and I think that at least some of them have kind of carried arrogance from then forward. It has been mentioned before that IMO there is an unearned arrogance the surrounds the men's program now. The Knight guys that got Woodson in did so on their name and mainly on Coach Knight's back. There aren't really any of them that are going to be huge coaching must gets. The players today are living off the goodwill reserve created by those same old heads who use Knight's name to get control of the program. And none of them are providing the results that would support any of that arrogance. A little humility would serve them all well. Woodson couldn't wear Knight's jockstrap as a coach and until the players start doing something in the BIG and then in March and April, they couldn't wear those former Knight players like Woodson's jock as players.

I don't recall anyone saying we were going to contend in the Big 10. Not saying that population was zero, but that definitely was not consensus. Most were hoping for an upper half finish, showing up in a few of the marquee games, and comfortably getting into the tournament. As to your description of how the university is run and a bit of the...tone behind the comments, I would say that is not surprising either. I think most of us know how Indiana is run and that is why the criticism exists. The people in Bloomington inhabit a bubble that most of us do not. That isn't a good thing for the people in that bubble who think being within means they have a better grasp on reality. To put that a different way, Indiana University has had arrogant morons in charge for decades. Anyone paying any amount of attention realized that a long time ago.

Having Reneau creates a predicament. I like him, but I think having him in as a starter causes us to have roster issues. He is an offensively talented kid in the post. Really good. The issue is that A)he wants to be a 4 and B)what he brings on the offensive end, he often gives right back in the areas where he has room for growth in his game. If Malik could turn himself into a well rounded 5 over the summer and we got a modern 4 to go along with him, great. If, as we are being told, we go out and get a "rim protector" we start running into the same issue we have had the past 3 years with a clogged lane. I think Woodson has a system and style that he is stubbornly clinging to and his personnel has made it easier for him to do that. Reneau and Race Thompson are the types of players who were good enough to argue, "I am just doing what my roster dictates" when paired with Ware and TJD. If Reneau left, Woodson may not have that luxury and you could end up with more of a Walker 4 and Ware 5 type of situation where you can actually get your PF out of the way.

That is only part of it IMO. We have a large support staff and undoubtedly spend on the high end for NIL. Our cost per win is probably not really great.

I have no dog in this fight, but seriously..."forget what the reporter who talked to the kid and reported what the kid told him, listen to me." Woodson's surgery had everything to do with us not getting the visit. You can argue it didn't have anything to do with us landing Knecht because Tennessee just blew him away on the visit, but you are really operating in a murky area if that is your argument. I am not buying the starter thing with Knecht, that is something you sus out through an agent before you commit to a visit.

This is why the "true fans" comment kind of pisses me off. We have been mediocre to bad for all but a handful of years in the past 2 decades. The type of support this program gets shouldn't be taken for granted, even when there are elements of it that are dissatisfied with what they are watching. Yeah, there are people who take things too far, try ignoring that and focusing on the (undeserved based on recent results IMO) good fan interaction you get.

"It wasn't my job to get Miller Kopp shots." I would assert that freshman Jordan Hulls would have struggled under Woodson as well. Hulls didn't develop ability to get off his own shot until year 3 and 4. If you are a system player with a coach like Woodson, you are going to struggle.

Yeah I wasn't even commenting on that. I am kind of torn between whether my problem is with the information (it is a bit) or the way it is being delivered. I think this is going to be a ---- show and Woodson is either a mildly competent coach, lazy and entitled, or some mix of all of that which is going to ensure he won't be regularly successful here. I think we have about seen his ceiling already and this portal things is an expensive Hail Mary from a group with a bunch of pull within the University decision making structure trying to save face. I am assuming we are seeing the University politics play out between Chris and NGW. I think the thing annoying people about NGW isn't really the tone, it is that they think he is wrong and Woodson is wrong but you are really kind of helpless to do anything about it. Nobody gives a crap about the know-it-all tone if things are going differently. If he sticks around and this doesn't work out, the tone is setting NGW up to really hear about it next winter and spring though.

Woodson built a bridge for us...so that we could meet in the middle and bash each other's brains in. He is going to be back. It is happening. He is going to have to build a roster with a method that he was pretty unsuccessful with last year. I don't think he can do it consistently and have a team that looks much better than what he has been able to do so far. Some people apparently believe the rent a player method is the future. We will find out over the course of the next few months. I think there are narratives that both sides have gotten wrong. One side is getting their opportunity to pound their chests and brag now, we'll see who is saying "I told you so" next year. I figure I win either way. Woodson pulls an exciting year out of his rear end next year or he puts himself in a spot where he got his 4 years like Miller and we can have a real discussion about whether we want to spend more time dumping resources at him.

As someone asked up above, you act like you have a direct line to information here, so simple question: Did Woodson know Love's name on the visit? Yes or No. I don't care if it was widely known or if someone brought it up back then. That is just brownie points on a message board that can't really be cashed for anything. The important thing is the question itself. Did he not know the kid's name? Yes, No, or I don't know are the 3 acceptable answers.

It is a year too late though. These types were available last year as well and we had a need and left a scholarship open. I mean great if the staff has finally figured this stuff out but it is kind of frustrating that we had to take a year like this for them to figure out things that a bunch of internet yahoos were pointing out last year at this time.

At the moment I will be shocked if we land either of those 2.

$461K if split evenly between 13 guys (it won't be). I am kind of resigned to things now. I am ready for Woodson to go, I will keep an eye out to see if he is capable of shutting people like me up on the court, and I sure am not buying into the inevitable summer hype machine that will be saying how awesome all of our portal hauls are and how great we are going to be. They have to show me early and often. No more of this NBA BS where they finally start "getting right" at the end of the year to squeak into the tournament. $6 million for a college basketball team is the kind of money you spend to be fighting for a conference title and be in the second weekend of the tournament particularly if you are a brilliant NBA coach who is used to dealing with overpaid athletes. I look forward to Mike Woodson making me STFU or by experiencing the schadenfreude of watching him fail. Win/win.

He is coming back. Might as well just accept that now.

Izzo had an equally poor year. He just managed to take care of the garbage teams like he was supposed to. The last thing he needs is people thinking 10-10 in what has been an awful Big Ten and around 18-13 overall was a bad job. He would be pointing at himself with that.

I haven't gone at the players directly. I have shared conjecture on who may stay or go. How do you think Cupps would feel about what you have expressed on these forums about him? Or is it okay to **** talk players if we are using it as an excuse as to why Woodson isn't doing better? Wonder what CJ Gunn thinks of St. Mike....

You notice how Bob Knight mentioned his critics instead of fans? Bob Knight wasn't pooping where he ate with that speech. Mike Woodson was with his.

I don't consider where MSU is at as sitting pretty either although that would have met my extremely low expectations going into this year. I just wanted them to make the tournament and then hopefully see something to build on going into the spring. He failed to deliver on both. I am expecting more of the same next year. New development being that this is really my only experience with Woodson and while I was supportive and hopeful he would be a bridge for us after he got hired, now I kind of hate the guy. Going to be really hard next year because I want to be able to enjoy Indiana basketball again on one hand but I'd really like to see that arrogant prick fail hard on the other.

He went 10-10 in a bad Big Ten. I mean, yeah you are 450 pounds and you just had a heart attack but didn't die. I just think saying "See, stop talking about how unhealthy I am" to your doctor who has been saying your diet could kill you is really the route to go.