IUCrazy2

I think you are describing what I would label as a healthy program. I don't think we are that. There have just been comments from the kid and his Dad that I have seen in the press that lead me to believe that he expects to be on the court and pushing to be in the 25 draft. Mgbako isn't a natural 3 IMO but we offered him that and had gone so far as to play Sparks when Ware went down as opposed to sliding him to the 4 and Reneau to the 5. I think Woodson makes deals to get guys here and it takes an act of God to knock him off of that...and sometimes even those don't change how he does things. If I were a betting man (I'm not) and the Rice rumor is true, I would bet that Rice, Tucker, Mgbako, and Reneau are all starters right now. The only question left is whether Woodson abandons his system and allows (forces) some guys to play their more natural college positions. ETA: I guess we will find out. I just don't have much faith in this staff at the moment.

5* Top 20 players who were going to forego college to get paid in a minor league before it folded are not agreeing to come to a school and come off the bench. I am not saying he should start, I am saying he will start.

I think you have 1 of the 3 wrong. Reneau, Mgbako, and Tucker are going to be starting. Bank on it. I have said before, the Tucker kid does not come here if he isn't promised a starting spot. Sure, Woodson could change that when he gets here, but then his word is garbage and he likely struggles to ever get a kid at that level again. Tucker would not accept going from semi-pro to college bench. So either Woodson is changing his system and moving Mgbako to the 4 or Tucker is our 2G.

Because every big program has extremely rich people willing to light their money on fire. When people were saying "everyone has money", they meant it. We are also totally dumbing down what it means to get "elite" talent out of the portal. If you were told in early March that Woodson was going to use that money to pull Perkins from Iowa and the dude from Drexel and that was better than recruiting, people would wonder if you were crazy. There are some decent players who we have been mentioned with but nothing about anyone we have heard of so far, in combination with what we have coming back, should lead anyone to believe that we are suddenly going to go into overdrive. Again, we do this stuff every spring, summer, and early fall and then the product on the court is just mediocre. I expect nothing different this upcoming year. (But, but Woody is going after guards now...phbbt...OK, whatever.)

Speaking for me, whether that poster is connected to someone on the staff or not (it is a possibility), that person does seem to be sharing thinking that is conceivably in parallel to the coaching staff's thinking. Everything should be a grain of salt but there is the possibility that following that person is giving a little window into the culture of our coaching staff. (And IMO it isn't pretty but your mileage may vary.)

I am nihilistic about it all. I don't think it really matters. It might be fun to dunk on some people who are riding the sunshine train right now but other than that, I am expecting a ceiling of around 20-12 and on the bubble. I haven't seen anybody in the portal that screams, "This! This is who we needed" and I doubt any of the "secret agent" guys will either. The people pumping the sunshine are falling for the same crap we have fallen for every summer for like 8 years now. The "help is on the way" fallacy. Players matter but not as much as coaches do in college. Woodson and staff still haven't figured that out. They think they are going to buy their way to the big 3 in Miami through the portal. That isn't how it works at this level. Yeah, you can accumulate talent that way but THE most important thing is the coaching staff. We have been given no indication that anything is changing on that front. No new faces and no commitment to running a different system. They could go out and land the starting five for whomever wins the championship this year and I would still caution to wait and see because of the staff.

Did you see the Tucker kid's comments at the McD practice? He is going to be a starter. I guarantee he was told he would be a starter. That kid has the number 1 goal of getting to the NBA ASAP. That doesn't happen as a bench role player. Any starting lineup that anyone is putting together has 3 players locked in already. Tucker, Mgbako, and Reneau are all starting.

The thing he apparently doesn't realize is that every "source" that isn't the player themselves, is biased. He may have a connection to the staff and they may be doing everything he says, however, that doesn't mean the staff has a correct read of the situation either. They may truly be passing up all the kids out there right now because they think they got a bigger fish on the hook. That is a gamble and if they don't land that bass and all the best blue gills get caught up while they are chasing their white whales, it will leave them with a bunch of useless bait to throw at guppies. I never give you guys **** for posting what you hear because I think it is shared in good faith and you aren't an @$$ about it. I also realize that whomever is sharing with you has first person bias. They only know what they know and if what they know isn't coming directly from the player himself, we'll, they may be wrong (and the players can even change their mind).

https://twitter.com/Tyme1299218/status/1774959085902766535

Yeah, I don't reply. I figure it is the other side of the divide. Eventually it will all play out. I take a negative view of next year, we'll see how it goes.

The Tyme (NGW?) dude on Twitter (X) is implying everyone worried about the canceled visits are idiots and the real discussions are going on through back channels with guys nobody is paying attention to. Whoever runs that account better be right because he has been going after quite a few of the IU bloggers/reporters in comments. If dude is wrong he is begging to get dunked on by a whole bunch of people. Honestly, at the end of the day, I think that the system is already broken and so is the roster. I don't know if it matters much who you get in here because some of the guys who stuck around when mixed with this coaching staff points to problems I am already seeing no matter who they bring in through the portal.

I just view all of this as another step closer to moving to the real future.

I expect them to beat NC State and next Monday we will be within a bad UConn game of the final cherry on top of this bad year...really this bad couple decades. If they win a title then all 5 of ours are officially ancient history. Them in the F4 is already bad enough. There is no big name coming in after Woodson. This is going to be a complete reclamation project.

Co-sign. Screw Purdue.

And honestly, back to the roster construction, I don't know where this new 5* fits in. The kid was wanting to go to the Ignite "pro" ball before it folded. This is a kid who wants to be in the NBA ASAP. He isn't going to want to ride the bench. I don't see a starting spot for him that works unless you slide Mgbako to the 4 and Reneau to the 5. Both things that Woodson has been loathe to do. Additionally, both things that leave us really susceptible on defense and rebounding. People are also saying we are high on the Perkins kid, so say you add him. What are we looking at for a starting lineup? Perkins, Galloway, Tucker, Mgbako, Reneau? I doubt it. How comfortable are we with Perkins, Tucker, Mgbako, Reneau, rim protector we haven't landed yet? I would almost bet dollars to donuts the roster will be closer to the latter. And that is a talented roster but I don't think it is a roster built to really compete at higher levels. The staff has to add shooting to the starting lineup, not the bench. I haven't really seen that addressed yet (granted we still have half the team to fill but if Mgbako stays, I believe we already have 3 starters set.)

That toxicity comes from the top. Woodson set all that ablaze on senior day. If he fails again there are going to be quite a few people (rightfully IMO) tap dancing on the grave of his coaching tenure here. He can win me back, but "winning" the summer isn't going to do it and neither is a 22-12 tournament appearance next year. He nuked the bridge with me and it is completely up to him to rebuild it by winning meaningful games over an extended period.

My problem with him isn't so much the idea of the money, it is that he is so lazy recruiting throughout the year and then tries to build a team in a month. Relationships are built through the recruiting process with HS kids. They come and visit and get to know players on the team and the system. The school gets a chance to feel them out. Ample time for everyone to decide if there is a good fit. I think that leads to building more cohesive teams. Woodson doesn't give the job the attention it needs. That is the issue. He had to go to two billionaires and say, "Mea culpa, can you all float me $2 million since I didn't do my recruiting job the past 11 months?" That is what is frustrating. That is what annoys people. Woody landed another 5* player after 3 days, wow, how awesome. He has done that every year here though and the results have been decidedly mediocre. The problem has never been landing talent. The problem has been the entire approach to roster construction and the style of play. Everybody knows we are going to get some dudes, we walked up to the table with the ability to match the most bets. The problem is that we are likely overspending for talent and setting a bar that is going to stick with the program for awhile to just cover up the fact our coach wants an NBA schedule and is a lazy recruiter.

Frankly, I think the kids are state employees and whatever money they are getting funneled should be public record. And save me the idea that the collectives are private entities. The biggest ones are IU directed work around to funnel money to players. Our former AD runs one of them. Nothing would ever come of it but IMO they are basically taking gifts that would be illegal for other government employees to take.

I'll take IU by 1. Just find a way.

Outside of just having a distaste for what NIL (and that is a joke of a name, this is pay for play) has done to college in general, I think when people talk about Woodson "buying a team" it is a frustration with the idea that he is a mediocre coach with an outdated approach to the game who was thrown a lifeline to go buy players by a few big donors who are as out of touch as he is. Also, is this a permanent commitment to actually compete by these people or was this a shot in the dark to save their guy from himself?

I am not getting excited about anything until they are on the court winning. We do this dance every offseason where we get a team that looks OK or even good on paper and then just...meh. I am holding all excitement until after the Bahamas trip. That is where they can change my mind. Until then, I expect Woody-ball no matter who he has on the team. We had the best roster (by HS rankings) in the Big Ten last year. Woodson can get talent, he just underperforms with it.

You would hope....I just don't have that faith.

So I am too lazy to go look, but the 5 star guy we had on campus this week, wouldn't he be a wing or 3? It seemed when I glanced over his stuff when it was announced that he would be someone competing with MM's out of position position. I don't see how we add him without making someone unhappy, unless we plan on making him our 2 guard in which case: "You would like to see Bryson’s jump shot to become more consistent. He is really good in the mid-range, one to two dribble pull ups from the elbows. An explosive athlete, he is good in transition. He has a great work ethic and is one to continue watching as a five-star." That doesn't sound like the type of player that is going to move the needle towards "modern basketball". I know people will say that JHS and TJD in the pick and roll and this kid could play the JHS role in that scenario but I don't know. I think Woodson has himself in a pickle with his roster. His 2 best players cause roster problems when trying to build around them.

Don't worry, NGW says we got this on lock. Woodson is just brilliant and we are morons and this is all just a genius working the process. I cannot wait until November to see this brilliant new approach to basketball that Mike Woodson is working this offseason. We should be Big Ten favorites with our Top 5 salary and our ability to completely outbid people by not having money tied up in high schoolers. Expect to win the event in the Bahamas to start the year. These dumbasses pull this **** every summer. By the bar they are setting, anything less than 25 wins and the Sweet 16 should be viewed as a failure.

Legend in his own mind.