Magnanimous

Everyone's thoughts on Green’s performance.

Ed Orgeron says hi. I’m done repeating myself on this. The team moves the ball well in the half court, much better than Crean’s teams did, and the sets do open up shots. They don’t go in, plain and simple.

I don’t base a coach’s evaluation on cherry-picked parts of his team’s worst games. Archie’s teams do hustle and the defense has been fine. They can’t shoot. The shots are there, but they don’t go in. That’s it. That’s the whole problem plaguing this program right now. If they had two guys who could reliably shoot they’d be a top 15 team. Yes, it is on the coach to get the shooters in the door, and like I said, if Archie can’t do that next year given the obviously gaping hole on this team then he isn’t the guy. But if he can, which he should hopefully be able to do because shooters are littered throughout the country, then when coupled with what has already been installed he may just have a competitive team going forward.

No.

The effort is there, the defense is there, and more often than not the offensive sets are there. He needs shooters and it’s an easy fix. Literally find some kids who can shoot. They’re all over the country. I get that some of the shooting Archie was counting on with his young recruits hasn’t arrived, but if he can’t get basic shooting added to this roster by next season than he’s never going to get it done here. Thats where I’m at with Archie. Let’s see what his system looks like with guys who can shoot or it’s time to go. You cannot play Shaka Smart VCU basketball at this level and expect to win. Archie needs to get a couple of Nick Zeislofts here ASAP, not more freshmen.

It should be a requirement going forward that if you are under 6’8” you need to shoot at least 30% from 3 to keep your scholarship on this team.

We’d be winning if we took half the three point attempts we have tonight...

Maybe at their next practice they should just play Around the World.

No it’s unwatchable because our team would actually lose to second graders in a game of Horse.

Play the walk ons at this point

There are 13 minutes left in this game and we still haven’t hit a shot from outside the paint.

Guard play is abhorrent tonight. Ball handlers can’t dribble and “shooters” can’t shoot.

If we make the tournament we’ll be between a 6 and an 11.

As slow as he is, Davis’ size is just something you can’t teach. Even if he only plays 8 minutes and fouls out, it helps us go toe to toe with other teams with bruising interior games. We would have lost at least one to MSU last year if it wasn’t for his physical presence.

The offensive sets aren't bad today. The problem is there isn't a player on the floor who can consistently hit a shot beyond four feet....

Can't speak for this game, but when the camera is off him and the team is on the sideline he actually hates them. Besides Al, I don't think he likes a single player Crean recruited.

I only caught the last 9 minutes of the first half. Justin Smith needs to be benched until February. I'm sorry, but his effort and decision making is piss poor. No forward should have 5 turnovers to 1 rebound in a half and ever see the court again for the remainder of the game.

In fairness to Archie, Crean would’ve lost to those teams as well if he stayed. Roster was terrible and Morgan would’ve stayed a role player under Crean.

Essentially that. His style of players who have been in the system for a year or two.

A question to consider is this, if UNC, Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas all became open, which coaches would they target? And of those coaches, who would they likely get? For the purposes of this exercise, Tony Bennett and Jay Wright are not acceptable answers.

I’ve said this for a while, but if we’re like any program in the country, the best example is probably Penn State football (besides the whole Sandusky scandal). Taking away what McCracken did in the 40s and 50s, IU b-ball dominated the 70s and 80s under one coach like Penn State did, with both programs dropping off around 1994 due to an aging coach refusing to adapt to the current game. Both programs were known for a true student-athlete approach, simple uniforms and playing fundamental ball. Heck, both teams won their last national championship in 1987 as well. Penn State has reinvented itself as an “it” program for today’s recruits and young fans. A large part of it is James Franklin’s personality as a player’s coach. I mentioned this in the Fire Archie thread, but IU basketball’s brand is stale. It needs to become cool. Our football team actually has to a degree. I’m not saying we should revamp the uniforms and put player names on it or ditch the candy stripes, but there was a short-lived buzz around IU when Zeller was here that we have not been able to recapture since. It’s not just winning more that’ll help. Hopefully the new AD will help to rebrand us. IU basketball games should be an event, not just a way to kill two hours. Someone else mentioned it and I agree, but the cheerleaders need to ditch the turtlenecks and 50s style rah-rah demeanor. The student section needs a new approach with more to it than just being “big”. We need to promote bigger personalities who visit campus. Hoosier Hysteria feels like a PTA meeting. IU basketball doesn’t need to completely lose its family oriented environment or squeeze out the white haired, red sweater wearing regulars to cater more to out of state students, but it needs some fixing. As the years go by, the old fans and alumni who witnessed the glory years are going to go away and be replaced by millennials and Gen Z who are having a harder time showing interest in this team. It needs to be addressed now before it becomes what the MLB has become with the generational gap.

The one difference being that what made Nebraska successful through the 90s is never coming back. IU has all the talent it needs within a 3 drive of its campus. I’d liken this more to where Miami or Tennessee football currently are.

I think we’re past the point of blaming Crean, but the question then becomes how far along are “Archie’s guys” that he can be reasonably held accountable for every player on the roster. Phinisee (when he’s healthy) and Franklin I think are most indicative of the type of players Archie wants to build his program around, but there’s not much beyond that right now to feel comfortable about. Who knows how long Jackson-Davis will stay and Hunter is far from being who we keep hearing he’s capable of being when ready. Anderson and Thompson play hard but they are just so limited offensively. Looking at “Crean guys”, Davis is about done. He’s a bigger version of Tom Pritchard at this point. Green is who he is, Durham is the fourth option at guard on any competent team, and Smith has shown zero desire to lead or develop into anything other than an occasional slasher who shows up when he feels like it. I was really hoping he’d turn into a poor man’s Justin Jackson but he’s not even a poor man’s Troy Williams right now. He’s halfway though his junior year and if he was going to be more than what he currently is I think we’d have seen it by now. If Trace comes back, which I think he will, we should have a decent front court next year with him and Brunk, but that’s just for one year. That’s going to be a major hole for us in two years regardless of who is coach unless we add someone to this year’s class. We need shooters and we need better guards. Rob has shown promise but he’s been injured and just seems “off” right now. What I would do for two Nick Zeislofts right now...

This is from Archie’s first season. His response to the question at the 2:15 mark is what convinced me he was our guy and got me very excited about his tenure here. No bs response, and he really showed his true colors there when he went away from his scripted podium talking points. This attitude hasn’t materialized into where this program should be and is where I feel most dejected about where we stand right now.

Other than refusing to hire blatant cheaters, cover up for scumbag players, and let athletes take fake classes, there isn’t much the administration is doing to get in the way of our head coaches. The facilities needed upgrades 15 years ago. That’s been addressed. Paying a coach $4.5 million instead of $3.8 million isn’t going to make our players shoot any better. This team and these coaches are well supported financially and with regards to amenities. Many programs are doing more with less than what IU offers. We still have somewhat of a rabid fan base, new locker rooms, new training facilities, a separate practice facility, luxury dorms and apartments, high level marketing, etc. And in all honesty, none of that crap really should be necessary to put forth effort and work on developing as a player and a coach throughout the year and offseason. We’re not competing not because our players each need to have a PS4 in their locker. It’s much simpler than that and saying Archie or any potential future IU coach doesn’t already have a full arsenal of resources at their disposal is completely false.