HOA Rant, Advice sought...

[Naturalhoosier 15,424]

We live in a condominium where the only access to the unit is up a flight of exterior stairs.  The exterior stairs/decking was rebuilt this past August.  After some turmoil (the stringers were too short which created a steep stair angle, some of the stairs were too short in depth, a few other things) the deck was FINALLY completed within code.  It literally took them three tries to get this right...crackerjack crew.

 

A few weeks after the deck was completed the builder sprayed sealant on the deck to protect it from the elements.  Here in lies the problem.  After the sealant was sprayed, the decking no longer absorbed the water, but instead it pooled into puddles on the stairs and on the deck itself.  The house I grew up with had a deck (which we built/sealed) and I've never seen sealant do this.  I've seen it bead up, but never pool. 

 

We contacted the HOA and let our Management company know of the situation including pictures of the stairs showing the water pooling (as water) and how it freezes into 16 individual stair-sized ice rinks.  Our requested resolution is to sand off the layer of sealant on the stairs/deck.  Our Management group returned our email request by stating that they will defer to the HOA Board's decision.  The Board comes back and says because the deck was completed (finally) within code that they will not be taking any further action.  If we wish to have anything done, we need to submit an architectural change request and pay out-of-pocket for any changes upon approval.

 

Are we in the wrong here?  I have the safety of a wife, a 4 yr old, a 6 yr old, and a dog (aside from myself) to look out for.  As this is the only way in to and out of our unit, should we be forced to eat this fee?  What are your thoughts?  We are considering consulting an attorney to get their feel for the situation. 

 

BTB...any insight/assistance/info on this would be awesome.

[coachmayhew 1,414]

Sounds completely not safe but I can offer no advice except if it stays that way make sure to salt your steps, don't rely on them for your family safety. In the courts I have no clue but in life family comes first, salt the stairs as needed and consult those with more information.


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[Naturalhoosier 15,424]

Thanks Coach. My wife is reaching out to the local news stations. They seem to take an interest in Public Safety concerns. :) What about a FedEx delivery? What if he should fall? God forbid something happen to using our unit, how would a First Responder get to us. I'll post some pics of the last freeze after a rainfall. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Naturalhoosier 15,424]

Here are two photos. The first is the bottom stair with a thin sheet of nice (imagine 15 more of those bad boys).

[attachment=171:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1383627607.933247.jpg]


The second picture is after it's melted. Notice that it pools in a puddle? My stairs face south, barely, if any sunshine hit them. That water won't evaporate quickly in the cold Denver shadows. It will eventually refreeze the following night if not cleared off.

[attachment=172:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1383627649.819958.jpg]


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[JSHoosier 20,086]

As another poster said, make sure you salt your steps for your own safety.  You can also get rubber slip-ons with metal studs for your shoes that provide traction, I've used them and I've never slipped with them.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Most likely they installed the steps the wrong direction to the grain. Heart side (center of the tree) up would give a convex to the top surface where the water runs off both directions  (front and back). The incompetent crew (3 times it's still wrong) put the stair treads with the heart side down which creates a concave top surface allowing the water to puddle.

 

 

Here's a representation of what I'm talking about.

 

[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/n3ab.jpg/][/URL]

Flat sawn wood cups to the opposite direction of the circular grain pattern. You can see this for yourself with a quick trip to the Home Depot in the pressure treated lumber section. Not sure what they use out your way but in the East it's all Southern Yellow Pine which is really bad about doing this. It doesn't matter the species though, all wood behaves this way.   

 

Here's an example of how all construction grade lumber is sawn. It is the most efficient method but not the best method. The areas to the left and right of the center are flat sawn. The very center is called quarter sawn and it doesn't cup at all or very little. 

 

[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/1nl9.png/][/URL]

 

This is why you're puddling.  Perhaps explaining to the HOA that it is indeed not done incorrectly would help resolve the situation. You'd probably need to get a home inspector or contractor on your side on this.  

[Naturalhoosier 15,424]

That's at least logical. The thanks Hwy for that lesson. I wasn't aware of the 'cupping' tendencies in wood. Thanks again. This at least gives us some ammo to move forward with our complaint.

My wife has a design background so she was the one who got the Building Dept involved initially about the stair issues.

Again thanks for the info!


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[Hwy 1 2,053]

You're welcome Natty. As I'm thinking about it, this stuff is all common knowledge (warping) and best practice in the construction trade. I really do think a well presented argument along these lines could get the job re-done, Part Quatre. Having been in the construction trade a long time ago (hs/college summer job/family business) I can tell you that I would have been redoing it on my own time for making such an idiotic mistake. Construction 101 stuff here. 

 

Also, sanding it will only be a temporary solution. It'll just cup again in a year or two, if not sooner.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

My advice if all else fails.... A couple of these down the middle of each step should do the trick...
[attachment=174:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1383673089.840427.jpg]


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[Naturalhoosier 15,424]

My advice if all else fails.... A couple of these down the middle of each step should do the trick...
ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1383673089.840427.jpg


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We have actually discussed this...but the site of a bunch of holes in stairs doesn't sit well w/me.  I'd just prefer it to be done right.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

If it were me I'd just redo it myself. It could be a bit of a pain because they used those hangar brackets if they used screws. I'd go to a real lumberyard and pick out better quality wood, cut them to length, finish them inside in the warmth, add some sand in the finish for traction and put the new treads on. Of course I have the tools to do such things so no big deal, better than messing with an HOA, imo. But, doing that might be construed as messing with the HOA and cause a whole new set of problems! I'm glad I don't have to deal with one of those soup nazi wanna be committees.