IUWBB vs USC - Friday, 03.07.25 @ Noon on BTN

[Stuhoo 87,746]

1 minute ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Give Moren a USC roster one time. Just once. We would get a natty. Crazy how much more length and talent they had and we looked like the better tram more much of the game. 

Open that checkbook and get an athletic four and five to go with Yarden, Shay, and Lenee. Add Lex, Lily, and hopefully one or two that develop from Fenn, Makulsky, and Wiseman.

As soon as that happens we are an absolute national title contender.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 88,972]

IU

 

USC

 

 

[ronzo4IU 353]

33 minutes ago, JerryYeagley23 said:

Give Moren a USC roster one time. Just once. We would get a natty. Crazy how much more length and talent they had and we looked like the better team much of the game. 

I don’t understand why we have trouble landing those type of players with all the success Terry has had and her great reputation…baffling.

[Aaron 4,390]

15 minutes ago, ronzo4IU said:

I don’t understand why we have trouble landing those type of players with all the success Terry has had and her great reputation…baffling.

Its because she runs a system similar to Matt Painter where sum is greater than parts and relies on D and shooting. You can't just plug top talent in and make it hum as Rutgers found out this year with Harper and Bailey. 

The fact that Moren has limped this team to the NCAA Tournament shows you what a great coach she is. The lack of a post player in her system that relies on a big to get shooters open is a huge flaw that would be fatal to most coaches. However, Moren has made it work somewhat because she is that good.

Meister's lack of development is the difference (as described earlier in thread) between being amongst the best in college basketball again and the top-35 to 40 squad they are. Get Moren a starting level post player in portal this offseason and they will compete at or close to the top of college basketball as they did the last five years.

For those who say Moren can't recruit, Faith Wiseman is a top-60 player and watching her yesterday as a frosh it's evident she has the ceiling to be a starter in this league in a couple years. Recruiting has improved from unranked three-stars to mostly top-75 four stars including the highest ranked recruit in program history for next season in Makalusky. You can't just throw a bunch of top talent in there and thrive as some seem to think given what Moren likes.     

For those who said give Moren USC's roster and they would dominate does not understand how she ticks. A batman ball dominant guard like Juju Watkins and a robin post player in Iriafen does not fit Moren at all and she would struggle mightily to make that work given the defense is average. Give her UCLA's roster with elite post player Lauren Betts and a bunch of shooters and yes she could well win a title with that.

You have to know coaches are at their best when they get the players that fir their system correctly. For Moren that is speed, hustle, defense, and elite shooting surrounded by a post player. What she needs for next season is a starting level post player in portal and maybe a wing to go with shooters Beaumont, Garzon and Ciezki. Give her that and you are near the top again. I expect Ciezki to take a huge leap forward next season just as Scalia did in year two after coming around late in first year as Ciezki has. It takes a minute to fit into Moren's system as a ball dominant guard which is why you can't just just give her JuJu Watkins and assume a title.  

[ronzo4IU 353]

13 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Its because she runs a system similar to Matt Painter where sum is greater than parts and relies on D and shooting. You can't just plug top talent in and make it hum as Rutgers found out this year with Harper and Bailey. 

The fact that Moren has limped this team to the NCAA Tournament shows you what a great coach she is. The lack of a post player in her system that relies on a big to get shooters open is a huge flaw that would be fatal to most coaches. However, Moren has made it work somewhat because she is that good.

Meister's lack of development is the difference (as described earlier in thread) between being amongst the best in college basketball again and the top-35 to 40 squad they are. Get Moren a starting level post player in portal this offseason and they will compete at or close to the top of college basketball as they did the last five years.

For those who say Moren can't recruit, Faith Wiseman is a top-60 player and watching her yesterday as a frosh it's evident she has the ceiling to be a starter in this league in a couple years. Recruiting has improved from unranked three-stars to mostly top-75 four stars including the highest ranked recruit in program history for next season in Makalusky. You can't just throw a bunch of top talent in there and thrive as some seem to think given what Moren likes.     

For those who said give Moren USC's roster and they would dominate does not understand how she ticks. A batman ball dominant guard like Juju Watkins and a robin post player in Iriafen does not fit Moren at all and she would struggle mightily to make that work given the defense is average. Give her UCLA's roster with elite post player Lauren Betts and a bunch of shooters and yes she could well win a title with that.

You have to know coaches are at their best when they get the players that fir their system correctly. For Moren that is speed, hustle, defense, and elite shooting surrounded by a post player. What she needs for next season is a starting level post player in portal and maybe a wing to go with shooters Beaumont, Garzon and Ciezki. Give her that and you are near the top again. I expect Ciezki to take a huge leap forward next season just as Scalia did in year two after coming around late in first year as Ciezki has. It takes a minute to fit into Moren's system as a ball dominant guard which is why you can't just just give her JuJu Watkins and assume a title.  

OK, well my question would be why is it taking her so long to get all those pieces together?

[ronzo4IU 353]

Teams like UConn build their winning culture and then keep adding to it every year to become a national powerhouse, but we can’t ever seem to do that for one year. We’re always good to really good but never great..

[Aaron 4,390]

1 minute ago, ronzo4IU said:

OK, well my question would be why is it taking her so long to get all those pieces together?

Long? They have been elite for five years now and are in a rebuilding season where the post player you expected to take a leap forward did not and you will squeak out an NCAA Tournament appearances. Presumably Moren will use her portal magic again this offseason as I described and they will be back near the top next season.

Not sure what else you want. Nothing long or dragged out has happened with this program since Moren's first season where she has struggled. As I said, her recruiting is at the best it has ever been and she is developing players into solid contributors each year.

[ronzo4IU 353]

Teams like UConn build their winning culture and then keep adding to it every year to become a national powerhouse, but we can’t ever seem to do that for one year. We’re always good to really good but never great..

[Aaron 4,390]

Just now, ronzo4IU said:

Teams like UConn build their winning culture and then keep adding to it every year to become a national powerhouse, but we can’t ever seem to do that for one year. We’re always good to really good but never great..

Correct and if you want a powerhouse go root for UConn. UCLA and USC are in the same upcycle IU has been in last few years and will have to rebuild once Watkins and Betts eventually graduate and will probably have a year or two like IU has had now. There is only two real powerhouses in UConn and South Carolina. Everyone else including IU and even Tennessee now may have a few really good seasons with an elite player or two followed by a few rebuilding ones where they still make tourney.

No shame in that.  

[ronzo4IU 353]

Next year has a chance to be worse than this year depending on what she can pull out of the portal. Losing Sydney and Chloe and Striplin is going to hit hard and I’m not sure why we ever thought Lily was going to turn into a great post player because she just doesn’t have the size when you come up against these bigger teams nor the skill set. She can do pretty good against the lesser teams, but Terry is going to have to figure this out if she’s gonna want to make deep runs in the tournament on a consistent basis.  She typically never plays freshman and there are a lot of teams that recruit freshman that are ready to play decent minutes so I think that she is a great coach, but her Achilles heel is recruiting and I hope she or she can find somebody to come in and help figure that out.

[ronzo4IU 353]

14 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Correct and if you want a powerhouse go root for UConn. UCLA and USC 

And I only root for Indiana, lol.

I hope it’s not for lack of resources because she definitely deserves all that she needs

[Aaron 4,390]

37 minutes ago, ronzo4IU said:

And I only root for Indiana, lol.

I hope it’s not for lack of resources because she definitely deserves all that she needs

Its not. She is building the roster the way she wants to fit within her system. 

[Aaron 4,390]

48 minutes ago, ronzo4IU said:

Next year has a chance to be worse than this year depending on what she can pull out of the portal. Losing Sydney and Chloe and Striplin is going to hit hard and I’m not sure why we ever thought Lily was going to turn into a great post player because she just doesn’t have the size when you come up against these bigger teams nor the skill set. She can do pretty good against the lesser teams, but Terry is going to have to figure this out if she’s gonna want to make deep runs in the tournament on a consistent basis.  She typically never plays freshman and there are a lot of teams that recruit freshman that are ready to play decent minutes so I think that she is a great coach, but her Achilles heel is recruiting and I hope she or she can find somebody to come in and help figure that out.

If this is run back with Bargesser and Meister as starters this team is indeed cooked. However, I would be shocked if that happens and it is nearly certain Moren will pick up a couple starting level players in portal as she does every season. Losing Striplin is a dime a dozen center and hopefully they can upgrade that position in the portal. With that said, Striplin was crucial to another NCAA Tourney appearance but expect the portal upgrade to be better.

Losing Chloe is not ideal. However, top-60 guard Navaeh Caffey is a more athletic version of her and similar to Yarden could play a ton right away. She can slash to the basket by creating her own shot which this team severely lacks. Syd is the one without an obvious replacement although I expect Lenee Beaumont who was injured this year to pick up a lot of her scoring and has highest current ceiling on team.         

If run back in tact team is indeed in trouble and would look like:

C Meister, Wiseman

G Bargesser, Caffey

G Beaumont, Makalsusky

G Garzon, Sandvik

G Ciezki, Jules

This would be big trouble but is not what I expect. Instead given the history I have to go on, this is what I see happening which is better than current

C Starter level portal Center, Wiseman (Lily Transfers)

F Another starting level portal player, Malusky (highest ranked recruit in program history and a few spots from 5*) 

G Beaumont, Caffey

 G Garzon, Sandvik

G Ciezki, Jules 

With this, I expect another short rotation which Moren prefers with Wiseman, Caffey, and maybe Makalusky in spurts. 

Moren has made it clear she thought Lily would give you most of what Mackenzie did and it just has not happened and she knows it. Given her system and how much the post is relied on, this is difference between a top-25 squad and where they are. Getting another Holmes is nearly impossible as those don't grow on trees. However, someone like Bostic at Illinois (who is out of eligiblity) makes you a top-25 squad and is the starting level post player they have severely lacked.  

[Aaron 4,390]

FYI IU was first 10 seed before today's loss so likely to be last nine or first when their name is called.

[Todd41 740]

1 hour ago, ronzo4IU said:

OK, well my question would be why is it taking her so long to get all those pieces together?

We need a General Manager that is responsible for building the team.

[TTT 1,255]

8 minutes ago, Todd41 said:

We need a General Manager that is responsible for building the team.

That would be Brad Stevens as GM in charge of both, men and women basketball operations.

Actually, then you could have a guy like Josh Schertz to coach the men’s program.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 88,972]

What women's programs in general are going to have to deal with.

WBB No. 1 recruit Aaliyah Chavez is commanding an NIL package valued at $1.5M annually,

@PeteNakos_  reports Texas & Oklahoma have emerged as frontrunners in her recruitment.

[NatHillIV 31]

I attended the game, which sometimes isn't a good place to actually figure out what happened.
Lilly appeared to be seriously hurt to my eyes, yet later came back and played as if nothing had happened.
Did radio or TV or post-game or anything else offer insight as to what happened?

[TTT 1,255]

14 minutes ago, NatHillIV said:

I attended the game, which sometimes isn't a good place to actually figure out what happened.
Lilly appeared to be seriously hurt to my eyes, yet later came back and played as if nothing had happened.
Did radio or TV or post-game or anything else offer insight as to what happened?

Per A.R. on B97 live stream Lilly twisted ankle getting tangled up with another player tripping after stepping on the other player’s foot.  Other player being aggressive but nothing flagrant or intentional.

[NatHillIV 31]

1 minute ago, TTT said:

Per A.R. on B97 live stream Lilly twisted ankle getting tangled up with another player tripping after stepping on the other player’s foot.  Other player being aggressive but nothing flagrant or intentional.

Thanks.  I was very surprised when Lilly came back and seemed fine.  It looked really bad in person to me.