Hoosierfan2017

I also think this year could be a big year, which is why I’m as concerned with the 2023 class as I am right now. Our biggest problem has been an inability to build on our success. Well, that was Crean’s biggest problem because Archie never had success at IU. 2011/2012, we have a great season and he’s able to build on it with an even better year in 2012/2013. But the season after that was a disaster. 2015 was a little better. We sneak into the tournament but lose in the at round. 2016 was great, then 2017 was another disaster. It was a roller coast ride. So, my fear is that we have a great year this year and then follow it up with a 2014 type of IU season. Like the 2013 team, our current team is going to lose a lot of players after the season.

He has a lifetime contract at IU, so I don’t think you have to worry about him ever coaching at IU. Would’ve been interesting to see how different history would’ve turned out if IU had hired him instead of Sampson, though. But alas. Anyway, his approach is just one way to do it. Whether you recruit like Calipari or not, you need the horses to get Calipari’s results. Let’s get the horses so we can finally stop sucking.

I compare IU to UK because UK is a “blue blood” program. Kansas, Duke, UNC, UK, UCLA. Those are your blue bloods. IU used to be one, though not really in my lifetime. If we have aspirations to regain our ‘blue blood’ status, then the UK’s of college basketball are who we need to compare ourselves to, including in recruiting. If we’re going to accept that we’re now just another run-of-the-mill program then of course comparing our recruiting to UK is silly.

I really don’t care if it “goes over well” here or not. I’m not posting about Kentucky’s success because I love Kentucky and want to brag about the team. UK’s success is being downplayed here to excuse our recruiting misses, I.e., recruiting top talent isn’t that important because look at UK, they get the best players and they aren’t that great. That doesn’t jive with me because I want IU to be as good as UK. They’ve been a top 3 program during Calipari’s tenure and their success during that period completely blows IU out of the water. It pisses me off. I want IU to be elite. Does the IU administration? Eh. I don’t think so. There’s no reason IU can’t have the same success, but the administration (and a contingent of the fan base) doesn’t want to do what it takes to have UK’s success. So, instead, we get what we’ve gotten over the past two decades.

Um, yes? I’d love to see a 30 win IU team in my lifetime. Hasn’t happened yet, but maybe one day it will. One team wins the NC each year. Are the other 300+ teams all failures? Calipari has high expectations because almost every year he fields a team capable of going all the way. But no coach is going to go to the final four every year. It’s never going to happen in modern day basketball in a lose and go home tournament setting. If you go deep in the tournament year in and year out, you’re giving your team a chance at winning it all. In 7 of 12 seasons Calipari’s teams have played for a final four berth. In 2017, UK went 32-6, 16-2 in SEC play, won both the SEC regular season and tournament championships, and made it to the elite eight. You consider that “not doing squat.” Id love for IU to have a season where they “didn’t do squat” if that’s what it entails.

In the 7 years since 2015, he’s gone 27-9, 32-6, 26-11, 30-7, 25-6, 9-16, and 26-8. Two elite eights and a sweet 16 (in six possible tournaments). Made 5 of 6 tournaments. Won the SEC 3 times and finished 2nd two times. I really wouldn’t consider that “not doing squat.” Calipari’s approach works. Is it the “best approach”? I guess that’s debatable. But IU’s approach most certainly isn’t.

It’s just a cope some IU fans have adopted. It’s easier to pretend that he doesn’t get results (rendering his recruiting tactics not worth it) than it is to accept that UK has been great under his command. I was born in 1994. We’ve had four 25+ year seasons since then. One elite eight appearance. Calipari has eleven 25+ win seasons in thirteen seasons at UK. Six SEC titles. Seven elite eight appearances (with one canceled tournament). But hey, at least when we lose we do it the right way. I’d hate to have Calipari and, gasp, win.

I remember when NIL first started and the staff members were puffing out their chests about how far ahead of the curve we were. Took about 5 seconds for us to get lapped. Our players are subjected to the hysterical bozos to get NIL while players at other schools are just given cash and cars.

But you don’t always know if your one and done talent will actually be one and done. Some kids like college. Some aren’t the projected lottery picks they expected to be. I’d wager that it’ll be even more common with NIL + kids being able to go pro out of high school. Your one and dones will turn into none and dones, and the elite recruits who come to college won’t have as much financial pressure to go pro before they’re ready. Before, guys were choosing between coming back to play for free for a second season or going pro and making millions. Now, if you’re at that level, you could make millions in college (or at least very high six figures). It probably won’t be enough to keep a top 5 or 10 pick from going pro, but a late first rounder? Maybe. Different sport, but Jordan Addison’s reportedly making more playing for USC this year than JuJu Smith is making playing for the Chiefs. Not every top 10 recruit is a Cody Zeller who comes back after a great freshman season. But Cody Zellers may become more common when they’re getting $500k or more to return. Ideally I’d like our recruiting to focus on the top 60ish recruits, primarily on the top 35ish, while maybe dipping outside of the top 60 for a guy or two per class, depending on the class’s size. A player like CJ Gunn may end up succeeding at IU, but players with his ranking (174 on 24/7 composite) would ideally be few and far between in our classes. With the transfer portal the need to take chances on players is decreased. If a low ranked player blows up, you can always try poaching them down the road.

Guys ranked 25-80 are great too, but guys in the top 25 have lower bust potential. Here are the IU guys we’ve gotten in the top 25. Eric Gordon - #1 Langford - #7 Zeller - #10 Vonleh - #11 DJ White - #15 JBJ - #20 Thomas Bryant - #20 Yogi - #21 JHS - #23 Some of those guys had more team success than others, but all were very good players at IU. How would a team with, say, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Cody Zeller, and Yogi Ferrell do on it? Not an exact comparison, but those rankings are what a school like Duke brings in year after year. You’re going to win a lot of games with that level of talent.

UK fans think anything less than a title every year is unacceptable. Since Calipari went to UK in 2009, Duke has 2 titles to Calipari’s 1, but Calipari’s been to more final four’s (4 to 3) and elite eight’s (7 to 6), and the same number of sweet sixteen’s (8). Calipari’s done better than Kansas during the same period. 1 NC each, more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 6, and more sweet sixteen’s (8 to 7). Same story with UNC. 1 title each, more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 5), and more sweet 16s (8 to 7). Calipari compared to Villanova is similar to him and Duke. Nova has more titles (2 to 1), but Calipari has more final four’s (4 to 3), more elite eight’s (7 to 3), and sweet sixteen’s (8 to 4). UK fans can be disappointed in only having one ring during that span, but their results look good when you put them up against other blue blood programs.

The Villanova approach is great when you have a top 3 coach in college basketball. Mike Woodson is not that. As for Calipari, the tournament is a bit of a crapshoot. But he gets his team in contention. In 7/12 seasons he’s been to the elite eight. Playing for a final four spot more than half the time isn’t so bad…

If you don’t want to use Cal’s recruiting then you don’t want IU to be an elite blue blood. Because it’s not just Calipari that recruits like that. Do you know who Duke has in its #1 ranked 2023 class? #5, #8, #13, #18, and #24. What about Duke’s 2022 class you ask? #1, #2, #4, #22, and #27. Duke does it even better than Calipari these days. IU seems to think it can trot out B- recruiting classes with B-/C+ coaching and get A results. Not gonna happen. JHS is a talented player. Possibly a one and done talent. Why wouldn’t you want more recruits of his talent level on the roster?

Idk why you’re so insistent on downplaying Calipari. His results speak for themselves. An elite eight appearance in over 50% of his seasons at UK. We can’t even get to the tournament 50% of the time. You say “in the past five seasons,” but the tournament was canceled one of those seasons. His team won the SEC that year. So really it’s an elite 8 and a sweet 16 during that span. I was a first grader the last time IU played in an elite 8. Sure, the players stay for a season. More often than not it’s a great season. Then Calipari replaces them with a new set of top 25 guys. In 2022 he got #8, #12, and #39. This year he’s got #2, #9, and #29. Landing JHS and Reneau is great. But you need to replicate year after year. We’re missing on all of our targets in 2023 and aren’t in on anyone close in talent to those two guys in 2023.

Calipari has had more success in the past 5 years than we’ve had in the past 20. His approach gets results. Flat out. I don’t care if the players are mercenaries. I care if they win. Rob Phinisee played 111 games at IU. He won 1 tournament game. Devonte Green played 120 games at IU. He played in 0 tournament games. Al Durham - 123 games, 0 tournament games. Give me the talented mercenaries and the success that comes with it every day of the week.

Not every one and done talent only stays in college for one season. UK’s 2012 championship team: Marquis Teague - 7th in his class Anthony Davis - 1st in his class Doron Lamb - 26th in his class Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - 3rd in his class Terrence Jones - 11th in his class Darius Miller - 35th in his class. UNC’s 2017 championship class: Justin Jackson - 9th in his class Joel Berry - 25th in his class Kennedy Meeks - 56th in his class Isaiah Hicks - 14th in his class Tony Bradley - 19th in his class Kenny Williams - 90th in his class Theo Pinson - 15th in his class Recruit elite talent, get elite results, more often than not. If one and done talent is something you don’t want, idk what you’re expecting from IU. We don’t get the recruits those schools get, and we don’t have the coaching those schools have, so it’s no surprise when we don’t get their results.

That’s just a cope. “I didn’t want these top recruits anyway.” If you’re not recruiting one and done talent you’re going to struggle.

We have a lot to replace. Newton’s #72 in his class and Cupps is #94. That’s not the level I want IU recruiting at. The 2023 class is ranked 26th in the country. That’s not where I want IU recruiting at. We’re not going to get the results we want recruiting at that level.

Some preseason hype and lots of available playing time next season yet we can’t get anyone to commit… Hmm.

Definitely not but a guy can wish

Now we just need the head coach to follow him out.

Mike Hart

That’s because the only time we have a chance to win is when we play other terrible teams and no one wants to watch that on the main channel.

Yeah Trayce will likely be our best player this season but he isn’t our best pro prospect. He’s 23 years old and lacks the perimeter game he probably needs to succeed in the pros at his size. JHS is the reason the scouts came to the pro day, so it’s not at all surprising that they view him as the best pro prospect.

So is it actually Woody’s plan to retire in 5 years?