HoosierHoopster

I had the same reaction, but we got dragged down by some of the lower-ranked we played

I think we've beaten this horse to death, and we got a little nudge above to move on (lol). JG's minutes were more in the games before the last 5 or so, and he produced in those, like he did end of last year, that's my point. Malik had a really off game or two, in his (reduced) minutes over the past few games, yeah, that happens, and no, it doesn't mean that's the player he is. I have no issues if JG gets good time and doesn't perform over several games, that would be what it would be. But we don't know that, and trying to say we do based on limited minutes over a few games doesn't get you there. I don't know if Woodson is right or wrong right now, I disagree with how JG's minutes have been limited (5??, 8??) in some of these games, but we'll see how that plays out. I'd bet on him getting back into better performances, but we'll see. Now I'm exiting this convo - later.

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if we find a way to win at KU, but JHS is definitely key. Either way, think, with JHS back in this game or the next, we're well set up for the good B1G and NCAA run we've been looking forward to.

Where we agree: in the last several games, when his minutes were dropped, he hasn't rebounded well (which is surprising to me, he rebounded very well last season) and his timing has been off, and then Woodson has yanked him, with better front court depth (Malik is outstanding), and as I already said, Woodson's trust level with him appears to be lower than with others, resulting in his reduced minutes the second he makes a mistake. We we disagree: He was playing well, making "the most of his minutes" in basically all of the games this year up to the UNC game (as he only got 5 minutes against Xavier there's just nothing to be seen from that game other than Woodson yanked him), and his 'stats' clearly reflect that. You talk about "cupcake" games as the games he's played well, but you do that ignoring what he did in the B1G tourney and NCAA tourney coming into this season, to then minimize how he's played over more than half of this season. Why is it so important to you to cast him as a player who can only play well against "cupcakes?" Why do you ignore how he played in the B1G tourney and NCAA tourney just last year? Are we now just entering conference play, is it still early in the season? Why do you ignore that it's pretty hard to rack up rebounds and blocks in 8, 9 or 11 minutes? If you cross compare how many blocks or boards Malik has on a same minute basis they're awfully close, minutes matter. So we got our tail handed to us by two teams whose bigs know how to run and play aggressive, athletic ball. And was Woodson right to start, and play Stewart 20-plus mpg last year while he played terribly in almost every game? His decisions on minutes are always right, right? hy try to make this about how Woodson knows best? You argued for more minutes for Lander when Woodson wasn't playing him, you didn't say Woodson knows best then, right? But on Lander -- and for me, on Hunter, Woodson was right then. I've already said I'm big on Woodson, I like and trust him as our coach, I think he clearly has us on a good path, his recruiting is good, and his and staff's game planning is mostly good, but no, I don't think every decision he makes on who to play and when is right, and yeah, I think JG has shown, when actually getting minutes, that he contributes well, and yeah, his stats do reflect that. No, it's not personal, but the way you post is just to argue and minimize, and that gets old to me.

"Oh the irony"

Yeah, you cherry pick all over the place, man it's just obvious. I guess JG didn't play in the NCAA tourney (not to mention the B1G tourney -- "cupcakes"? -- that earned him the added min in the NCAA tourney and helped us get there). The cupcake thing is just silly. So let' start with the NCAA tourney -- as in when Woodson stated he "discovered" Geronimo, and played him significant minutes. v Wyoming 7-11 (1-4 from arc) for 15 (2nd on team), 7 boards (2nd, tied w/Race), 1 block, 0 TO's. Crappy team? Idaho? Right. JG was one of the best on the floor, as recognized by about everyone. v St Mary's 3-6 (1-1) for 9 (3rd on team), 6 boards (led team), 1 TO. We got curb stomped, but JG played well. Cupcake? But forget the silly cupcake thing, how about minutes? - 20. Minutes matter, but you also ignore them. so this season After first game, in which he played poorly -- against a "cupcake" -- he played well for several, with good minutes-- and yeah, they're not the strongest teams, but then like I've been saying over and over again, but which you also ignore, JG played well in the earlier games but hasn't done well in the past few against the better teams, on limited minutes, he's getting pulled and then he isn't getting the opportunity to show/contribute. What stood out from the first 6-7 games, regardless of level of competition, is that he-- with Ren -- played good minutes and in those he performed well all around. v Morehead 5-7 for 10 in 17 min v Bethun 4-5 for 11 (4 boards) though in 12 min v Xavier - only 5 min, and played poorly in those 5, but never got back on the floor. 5 min tells us nothing about what he could do. Also been saying -- my opinion -- JG seems to be getting pulled quickly because it looks like Woodson still doesn't trust him much yet, because - again my opinion - he still has his raw moments and Woodson wants veteran and/or polished play on the floor. Same reason Woodson insisted on playing that terrible backcourt despite all their awful games, and didn't play Bates much last season (and I think he should have, even as a frosh he would've done better than that terrible guard play). Related, it's also clear Woodson has limited Malik's minutes during these games, because he's learning not to foul better bigs, though I think we'll see Malik's minutes growing soon, as they should. Then v Miami-O 6 pts, 5 blocks, 4 boards in 20 min v Ark-LR 5-6 for 11 pts, 5 blocks (again), 2 boards, 17 min -- Who else has 2 5 block games on this team? I guess it doesn't mean anything though, we should all just ignore it. v Jackson St 3-4 for 6 w/6 boards in 20 min And now the minutes drop and down goes his contribution level v UNC 1-3 for 2 pts, 2 boards, dropped to 11 min -- Malik also 11 min, and was 1-6 for 2 v Rutgers, 0-5 for 2 in 11 min, not a good game -- and Malik 1-2 for 2 in 15 min v Neb - dropped to 9 min, 0-2 (Malik 2-2 for 4 pts in 11 min) v AZ 1-2 for 2 pts in 8 min (Malik 2-5 for 4 in 14 min). So in the past 4 games he's played 11 minutes or less, and 8 minutes? Yeah, he didn't score much, golly, what a shocker. Minutes are earned, but then whether a player has earned them is in eye of the coach, and on this, yeah, I disagree with where it looks like Woodson is now, just like I disagreed with the same starting backcourt all last year despite how badly they played. JG and Malik actually have pretty similar numbers on close to equal minutes, clear that Malik will work through learning not to foul better front court players, his all around game is really smooth, foot work is outstanding, but JG brings a strong complimentary game with good front court D and athleticism -- And that' s what I "wax poetic" about -- I want the strong athletic energetic game he brings, that we often lack when he's not on the floor (and/or when Malik isn't on the floor). We get beat up by teams like Rutgers and AZ, TJD and Race obviously bring a great deal to the team, they're two of our best players, but athletic, aggressive D against strong and/or athletic front court players isn't their game, we miss that when JG and Malik aren't out there, and we, in my opinion, need more versatility, not just rolling out the same guys in the same minutes no matter what. Enjoy your post-loss critiques, later.

Dude you just cherry pick all over the place. Leaving aside that you post here either after or during losses and only look to criticize players or the team, you just ignore anything and everything that cuts against your arguments. It gets old fast, i’m not interested in discussing your cherry picked versions of reality, count me out of discussion with you, i’m not interested

Good grief, he's dominated inside in multiple games. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's extremely clear he's been one of our best interior defenders, and yes, the stats, on good minutes, obviously show that. Those AZ bigs are really, really good, experienced Euro bigs. That said, he barely played against Zona, not much to be drawn from that game other than those guys are really good, hats off to them.

I hear you WayneFleek -- but think that missing JHS is hard to overstate, what he brings in guard/perimeter D and orchestrating the O is hard to overstate (imo). ' I picked 2-2 for these noncon games, while thinking 3-1 was possible. The thumping of UNC lost some of its luster as UNC wasn't as good as projected and fell out of the rankings, but it's still going to be a good W and probably better later in the season (I'd bet on UNC getting its act together later). Xavier too. I'm 99.9% sure we lose at KU, but getting JHS back, and with Bates and Gallo both raising their games, I think we'll get back to the team we were hoping to see soon. I'd also bank on at least Malik getting more PT (and, you know, hopefully JG too -- lol)

There’s no blind faith at all in JG’s front court D, it’s blind not to see he’s one of our best. His defensive deficiency has been perimeter D, which is pretty clearly better this year, though not as good as some. Take off the blind man’s glasses

That seems to require a subscription or sign-up. Here's another recent overview story addressing UT's lack of comment so far https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Finger-After-Chris-Beard-s-arrest-a-major-17652321.php

He threw her around, bruised her, bit her and choked her. I don’t need to hear his “side”

I see it differently. JG is competing more with Race than Malik, the early lineups with both JG and Ren, which were very effective, aren’t being used much lately, and Race has had some really off games / parts of games and been bodied, but stays on the floor anyway. Of course he’s the better all around player but he’s not better defensively generally and especially not against strong and/or athletic bigs. The Malik-JG lineup with TJD or Gallo had real promise, but JG is on a short leash. He’s proven himself in multiple games but he still plays raw at times and Woodson wants experience or more polished play - nothing wrong with that but he sticks to that too rigidly (my op) even when we’re getting beaten up. We don’t get beaten up or play soft with JG and Malik in

And sweeping his hair back with flair

I wonder why most NBA coaches and many college coaches track advanced stats, I guess they’re all clueless geeks, right? Sure. I’m a believer in Woodson, but like anyone he’s not perfect, like insisting on starting and playing the same God awful underperforming backcourt all last year no matter how poorly they played. He has a stubborn streak to him, and his decisions aren’t always great. Questioning some of them isn’t blasphemy, and it doesn’t mean I don’t like him as IU’s coach. He could use some metrics, it might actually help.

Yeah this is fair, in that in the last several games (unlike the first few when he played strong) he hasn't contributed well -- the "but" for me is that he can't do things when he's just not playing, and the limited minutes he's getting, on a short leash, leave little opportunity to get back to the level of contribution he was showing earlier -- and we miss out on tougher front court play. See, for example, Bates. Many here, including those who say JG "isn't good," were saying similar things about Bates, based on his early play. He started off not firing on all cylinders, in several games, his timing was off, but he was given plenty of opportunity (in part earned over the summer) and then he had a breakout game, and he's been playing really well offensively (still some work to do defensively) since and his game and contribution level is growing. I'm obviously a JG fan too (excuse me while I pin up JG posters all over my office) but it's based on what he's actually shown, with minutes. He's going to make mistakes, he needs more polish, but what he brings in front court D, rebounding, steals, blocks, athleticism with actual energy and strength, and at least some outside shooting, for me justifies his getting more time, and I'm not surprised, at all, when we get beat by "tough" teams with front court guys that while skilled just don't bring that kind of game to the floor.

Dang it, you're probably right

Definitely frustrating, and does point to our need to play a tougher front court game

You're right, I have man crush on him. Lol. I disagree, he is good, his contributions are very clearly reflected in the stats (clear that Woodson is not an advanced stats guy fwiw), he's been one of our best front court defenders since towards the end of last year, but he still has some 'raw' to his game, he's not polished like Ren, and Woodson clearly still has some trust issues and has him on a shorter leash than other guys, who also make mistakes but stay in. Not going to continue this discussion, because all you do is say he's not good, see, that's why he's not getting the minutes. He'll either get played and demonstrate what he can do, or he won't, and the little jabs at my interest in seeing him and his defense, rebounding, blocking, and occasional deep 3 contribute to the otherwise "soft" play that a Rutgers' guy points out doesn't make any difference.

Do hope we crush them when we play them in the Hall. And agree not hard to argue -- on some -- it's TJD and Race (as good as they are) that play a softer game, Ren and JG are definitely not soft, all the more reason for more floor time for them, and getting JHS back.

I read it as saying they didn't execute the game plan well. Don't know though, and agree with WayneFleek's post. I'm going to keep hoping that JG and Ren see more action :)

If the report of bite marks, bruises etc. holds up, I can't see UT keeping him, that's seriously disgusting stuff

In all seriousness, there was never any doubt that he would be suspended. Even the Houston Chronicle was reporting early that the asst coach would coach this next game, and given the charges there was zero chance Beard would be anywhere near the sideline before the university’s own investigation along with the criminal process.

This is the talk that's been around here for a long time now -- IU absolutely dodged a bullet in staying way away (not that he wasn't going to UT anyway)