Hoozr

4/11/24   11:20 AM

Yeah I don’t pay attention to  social media fans when they post stuff.  My brother showed me some Facebook threads and I laughed at some of the stuff on those threads.  Needless to say I only post here and care about what others say on this message board.  Any other places don’t matter to me 

Clearly not easy being a fan of a program that seems to be declining rapidly and having basically 0 positive news since the end of the season.   My advice to posters including myself is to take a step back from the noise for  a second.    Everyone wants the same thing in the long run.  Getting haymaker after haymaker of bad news, bad vibes is going to take its toll.   Emotions are high with people posting about something they are passionate and dedicated about something they love when it’s going in the wrong direction.  What this board needs is a meet up where everyone sits down and have  a few.  That fixes a lot of issues. Can’t do that through posting.  IU basketball is probably the lowest it’s been at any point since Creans first year but that doesn’t mean we as a forum has to follow them down that road.    This board just needs a win or something positive to happen.    To keep on topic Woody needs to go.   

I guess now would be a good time to launch my paid subscription site while I’ve got the major publicity from Texas Hoosier. But that would probably require I start a tweeter account…. Hmm, never mind, I’ll keep posting here for free to the true fans. :)

If IU is dumb enough to be convinced that abandoning high school recruiting so a 67 year old can swoop in late and get some portal additions then they will get exactly what they deserve and I will sit back and watch it burn.   

First post here - long time lurker on BTB. I watched the senior day "festivities" and felt like I needed to let my opinion out somewhere.
I've been a donor and supporter of IUBB since I graduated a decade ago.  Good team or bad. I watch or record every game and make plans around them. I'm known by friends and family as a die-hard fan. It's part of my identity. Prior to this evening, I merely felt that Woodson didn't have the team on a good trajectory and that it would be better served going in a different direction.
Today was the first time I ever felt like a fool for my support. I got told by the head coach that I wasn't a true fan for wanting what I thought was best for the program. That same coach has refused to answer any question regarding the program's future or acknowledge that he would be willing to make any change to get a better outcome. That coach then told me he's done his job and that it should never be in question while sitting in 6th the worst Big Ten in ages with very few prospects of success this season or next. Some are saying they just took the comments as Woodson defending himself. I took them as him dancing on the graves of those who wanted him out.
I won't abandon the team entirely, but I'm sad and angry that I'm not considered a fan by the program I love and have withdrawn future donations to IU Athletics as a result. Frankly, I'm disgusted by Mike Woodson as a person and, valid or not, I feel personally insulted and I feel like my time, energy, and money has been wasted.
Anyway, this post is too long but I'm glad I got that off my chest. My wife says I'm being dramatic but I guess she's a true fan.

Give me Dusty, Abernathy, Matt Graves, and LaVall Jordan as assistants and let’s see what happens. You have everything covered. I still feel a change will be made.

You don’t come to IU and say you’re going to compete for Big Ten and National Championships then by the end of year 3 you’re not making the tournament. We’re on the bubble for the NIT. 
 
Add in recruiting is a disaster. Don’t go to HS or AAU games, don’t know anyone’s name. 
 
Just need a full reset.

Tom Crean walked into a situation with no scholarship players, no transfer portal, and no NIL. Mike Woodson walked into a situation with an all-American center, the transfer portal, and NIL shortly after taking the job. It’s absolutely laughable to compare the two situations. Mike Woodson’s team stinks this year because of Mike Woodson. Mike Woodson has zero recruits signed this year because of Mike Woodson. His failures are the reason for the situation he’s in right now. Period. 

I’m not going anywhere. Just busy in Minny with the women’s team. I’ll post a larger update this weekend when I have a keyboard and not on my phone. I’ve been replying to PMs but want to get it out to the whole board as well. 

IU fans may be a bit toxic right now. I propose that the toxicity becomes more prevalent, the Admin and Staff and future (Retired) coach Woodson deserve it. They're a dumpster fire, his comments today were so deflective. I am fed up with this BS.
Hoosier Hysterics: Eric and other weirdo - get lost. You're a stain on IUBB and verified creeps. How they're embedded with the staff and IU is beyond me, hell Jim Coyle is better than these guys. Offering your daughter to a recruit, joking or not, is room for dismissal. Stalking Fears on his recruitment. The NIL collective that they both financially benefit from. They are parasites. 
Staff (Walsh, Howard, Kenya, Cliff): Sorry to have to group you in here, really think most of them are professionals at their craft. But they've been here w/ Archie the worst 4 years in IUBB history and now they're a cog in the demise of the program w/ Woody. If Woodson doesn't listen to them, they need to sack up and move on or make themselves heard. If they're yes men, equal cause for firing. Cliff has done a good job in my estimation, but staying through two terrible administrations has tarnished my view on him as well (unfairly)
Dolson: If you want to move on, then get it done. QB and BOT are not in charge and if they are handicapping you with IU's most prestigious and highest grossing program then the choice is easy either resign and go public or do what's right and take the backlash. If a big donor is against your decision, don't take the $ - FAU is more competitive than IU w/ a tenth as much donations. You retain Woodson because of the mob you ruin next year's season and 2025 going forward, the damage can't be understated. 
Woodson: Retire, play golf, and enjoy your family and new grandbaby. He's been doing this for decades, just hang it up while you still have time, it'd be in EVERYBODY'S best interest (Fans, Admin, Players, Family, Mike Woodson). A lack of transparency and demeaning of IU fan base have soured nearly all toward Woody. 
I don't care if it's Brad Stevens, Bruce Pearl, Dusty May, Shertz, Thad Matta, Steve Alford - anyone but Woody at this point. 

I look at the "can't fire a legend or you'll look bad" very differently I guess.
If Duke hired Grant Hill, or North Carolina hired Sam Perkins, etc., then fired them later for genuinely poor performance (or like NC did with Dougherty), I wouldn't say "Oh, look how crazy and unreasonable they are, they fired one of their own". 
I would be like, "look how serious they are about being good and not tolerating mediocrity, he sucked and they moved on".
I think IU is WAY over-sensitive about this. If the coach isn't getting it done, move on!

Heading to work in a few.  Wearing a cup today.  

The optimist in me thinks maybe McNeeley found out Woodson won't be coaching him. 
 
The realist in me thinks he realized he doesn't want Woodson coaching him. 

Long-time, first time. This is a cool community and I figured I'd start posting...I won't add much, if any, in the way of intelligent conversation but I probably won't anger too many either. To paraphrase, "I gotta lot of thoughts and now, you people are going to hear about them". I am not in a position to hear things that are interesting like Chris007 does or know people (maybe?) like KathywithaC does but I do have information from time to time...typically about football, a program that should have prepared us for having blind hope with no rational expectation for success!
I'm not at all happy Woodson is back, no need to rehash any of the reasons. It's an illogical decision made on the basis of faulty thinking and people in power flexing their privilege to keep a man employed for selfish reasons. The head coach at Indiana University, in any sport, should be a position of merit. Not one kept because of connections to donors and past accomplishments (not as a coach though). That horse has been beaten to death. Moving on...
-Given the extremely large war chest of NIL funds that Mike Woodson and his staff (whoever that may be...I think it's likely all three assistants stay and a recruiting GM type, perhaps a Kenny Payne?, gets added to the staff. Armond Hill might be done, who knows) are being handed by the collectives plus more funds from the Simon family, Indiana will be a very attractive option for guys like Mackenzie Mgbako, Malik Reneau and Trey Galloway. They might not love everything about the system Woodson runs but it does not appear to me that they despise the man and the effort is certainly on the floor right now. If we add a good rim-protecting center that can move and play out of the paint on offense and then pair him with Malik (who really needs to become a better rebounder and stop fouling so much), convince Mgbako to come back and add Liam McNeeley...that's a good start. Find 2-3 difference-making guards with a huge offer of NIL funds and we'd be cooking. My hope would be it would be good enough to get like a 7-seed in the tournament. Maybe we win a round or two and Woody feels good enough about things to "gracefully retire" feeling he has stabilized IU basketball. That's best case scenario, obviously. Much guff will be given about needing to acquire a rim protecting center but if Malik is in the lineup, it's kind of a must. He's not big enough and not a good enough defender or rebounder to play him at center. He'd foul out in 15 minutes per game.
-How does everyone think Woodson will want to handle the non-conference schedule next season? I could see him wanting to rack up 9 or 10 wins in guarantee games instead of making it a really challenging non-conference slate. It'll be a lot of new pieces and I could see him justifying an easy non-conference schedule (we'd have to actually thump those teams to not tank our NET rating this time around) by pointing out all of the new players. I just don't see him wanting to go play a bunch of high-profile games again with the pressure on.

Since I'm able to look on Peegs I love it when their members hear something we're saying, then come over here and check us out. Then run back over there saying those guys are crazy. I guess if you're paying money you only want to hear info from someone your giving your money too. 

Yeahhhhh, appreciate the intent, but specifics that get back to sources are how you lose sources. Can’t really go there my friend. I’ll say this, it’s a specially called meeting, not a standing appointment, and the big boys/girls will be at the table for this one. Is that fair?

I love it. I'm like Robin and Batman just showed up. 

I understand Bruce Pearl being the sure fire thing with instant success and I’d love to have him,  but if people don't want Dusty May because of Archie PTSD then I don’t think that’s fair. I know it can appear we’d be going down that road but it’s just hard to compare the two for handfuls of reasons. We can’t assume Dusty will fail because Archie failed, and I personally know people who like to bring up Archie when Dusty May’s name comes up.
In my opinion, Dusty would create that same passion Bruce could because he gets it. Think of what Dusty is able to accomplish at a school like FAU, and consider what he’d be able to do with the resources and brand of an IU. Some may say that point could be said about Archie/Dayton/IU…but Archie wasn’t the type of guy ready to be on IUs stage. Dusty is gonna know what that stage is already and know how to handle it. 

Longtime lurker here.  Just a fan.  No insider info from me.  I'll just pipe in that I loved Woodson as a player but have been disappointed with his coaching.  I would certainly like a change in coaches especially after reading on here that he doesn't really have the desire to hit the HS recruiting trail.  Not a way to turn a program around.  Anyway, I just wanted to post and thank those of you in this thread who have shared info with us less connected folks.
BTW, I copied the post above because my eye caught a BOT name, Donna Spears.  I totally forgot she was on the board.  She sold us a house once in Richmond and her mother-in-law was our neighbor for many years.  Beautiful person.  Anyway, maybe I should go drop in on Donna and get the scoop.  She does like to talk, in a good way!!
Again, thanks for all the info.  Keep it coming!!
 

From my brief experience as a low-level employee in an SEC Ath department decades ago, most buyouts originate from donors since they typically aren’t considered “salary “ or “compensation” in the sense of belonging in the same lines of a university’s budget. But that’s not ironclad, as Jimbo Fisher’s buyout proves.
The raise/buyout info re: Woodson was public record info ever since it was announced a year ago, and as soon as I saw it I thought “Dolson’s trading a smaller total buyout amount on April 1st of 2025 for the opportunity to amortize a larger buyout amount over 8 years OR (given Woodson’s age) another opportunity to renegotiate the new buyout amount down.”
Reading what few actual tea leaves seem to be out there at the moment, I get the impression that 1) Dolson wants to move on, 2) Buckner wants to stay put, and 3) Pres Whitten may not yet want to be involved (but may soon have to be nonetheless). I have no idea if Pearl (or, more accurately, Pearl’s agent) is now involved, or if Dusty May’s representatives have been fully engaged, but perhaps things have reached some sort of standoff between the folks who want Woodson retained (Buckner, Cooks, Simons, some former players?) and those who strongly feel a change needs to be made (possibly Dolson, some other donors, some other former players, most of the fanbase?).
If that’s where matters are at this point in time, history tells me that some sort of exogenous or “outside” event may have to happen to break the stalemate. It seems to me that the most likely event fitting that description might come from the  one group directly embroiled in this that possibly has the least concern about what the BOT and donors think: players on the current roster.
If enough rumors are true and a “critical mass” of players plan to leave AND Dolson can convince others of that likelihood, maybe that could break the logjam and persuade Pres Whitten, enough donors, and if not QB himself then enough other Trustees, that the status quo is no longer sustainable, and as a result could possibly force the change that so many of us feel is desperately needed.
If such a chain of events led to Bruce Pearl, so be it. If it brought home a “native son” like Dusty May, so be it. If I could talk with either of them for 5 minutes I would say “whatever else you do, hire ASAP someone like Matt Graves on your staff because in-state recruiting is on life support and he can do the CPR necessary to revive it.”
 
 

Correct me if I’m wrong but the “buyout” of another party doesn’t need to come from the hiring institution. That is to say…
Any new coach who moves out of their contract could have their buyout paid for by ANYONE. Perhaps a group of boosters. Check doesn’t have to come from the hiring university. 

Damn, it's hard to squeeze in a post these days.
I'm not going to try to quote @cleeter and @jbeaman9 but their takes on how this plays out are on point IMO and my experience.  And FWIW, IU may be an educational institution but the management of IU isn't really any different than it is at any large corporation.  Dolson needs to have President Whitten completely in his corner.  In turn, they need to know they have BOT support.  If they know there is no support whatsoever, it would be career suicide for both to push the matter and have it overwhelmingly slapped back in their faces.  
Short digression.  Someone asked who QB's boss is?  He was appointed by the Governor so I suppose technically that's his boss.  QB's term expires in 2025 and I don't know if there's any age limit on BOT members.  If not, then it is possible our next governor could re-appoint him in 2025.
While I'm certain the BOT members don't follow our athletic programs as closely as we do, they don't live in a vacuum and are aware of the unrest in the fanbase.  Also, I feel certain Dolson and Whitten have some strong allies on the board that they are in communication with and keeping them fully apprised of what's taking place.  While QB is chairman and can wield some authority when it comes down to voting, a chairman typically only votes in the event of a tie.  The situation with IU basketball has become too big for QB to stonewall.  Group dynamics strongly suggest that the entire board doesn't follow in lockstep with everything QB wants but how the board may be split over the head coaching position is anyone's guess at this point.  And while I don't want the inmates running the asylum, the real possibility of mass defections unless Woody is replaced could well be the tipping point because of the negative image and press it would generate for the university.
 
 

Buckner's term ends next year and then he's gone.  Dolson could be the AD for another 15 years.  If they have a difference of opinion and they clearly do it's obvious who should win out.  Certainly not the guy who is gone next year.

Trilly just confirmed the Galloway info I posted here last week (and initially about 3-4 weeks ago).
That is why BTB is the goat. 
I posted that here and you guys took a very relaxed and logical approach - "this sucks, lets see what happens"
I posted it at Peegs and immediately - "FRAUD!, NO POSTS, etc"
Already canceled by Peegs membership and staying right at home here.