BGleas

I understand what you're saying, and it's not necessary to have a roster full of top guys to win, of course. You can also get good players even when you whiff on higher rated guys. But, the problem with "whiffing" on guys is that you're not landing your targets, and that shows a problem with the program, and also creates a scenario where you're more likely to end up with rosters that don't mesh well. I think we saw that with Crean the last few years. He clearly brought in some decently rated guys and some diamonds in the rough that exceeded expectations, but it's also clear that he quite often the last few years whiffed on his primary targets and had to go to options B, C, D, etc., which created a roster that didn't always fit together. What I'm saying is that I get not being overly concerned with the ranking of the players we're getting, but to me it is a problem if we're consistently missing the guys we target (regardless of their ranking).

One thing that has me a little hopeful for Saturday is that ND doesn't have a lot of size or shot-blockers. I'm holding out hope that RoJo can get to the rim and finish and also get to the line and sink some free throws to maybe get his shooting confidence back. I guess I'm hoping this is a matchup that could get RoJo going a bit, as he struggles against length. On the flip side, ND could destroy us from deep on the other end.

I agree. It would not shock me if a couple other players transfer out after the season. I'm not getting into the guessing game, but it just wouldn't surprise me. If it happens then the interesting piece will be how Archie fills the slots in terms of talent and class balance.

Completely agree. Under Crean and right now we're a 3-guard team, not a postionless basketball team. It was always partly what killed IU under Crean. We rarely had size/length/athleticism at the 2-4 spots, and especially the 2-3 spots. I think Archie is looking to recruit a bunch of 6'5" to 6'8" "wings" that are skilled and have length/athleticism which will greatly improve the 3-pt defense. It's much harder to knock down an open 3 when someone like OG is closing out on you as opposed to someone like Josh Newkirk or Robert Johnson. I'm not sure what years Archie was at OSU as an assistant, but I'd look for him to build teams similar to the OSU teams when Matta had it rolling. Those teams always had a big and a point guard, but then surrounded them by versatile, athletic, long wings in guys like Buford, Diebler, Lighty, LaQuinton Ross, Evan Turner, etc.

Archie/IU and Holtman/OSU will definitely be a comparison to keep an eye on, especially since both coaches (especially Archie/OSU) were on lists people would throw out for the opposite school, but I think the comparison for the Big Ten start is as simple as Wisconsin is very beatable this year, even at home, and I would bet if IU played Michigan at home this year we'd win that game. The road is a beast at this level, and so much of that plays into the results.

Was just going to say the same thing. I’ve noticed him leaning as well.

I agree, especially don’t see RoJo all of a sudden becoming a consistent shooter halfway through his senior season.

That’s a solid 7 that is a tournament team IF Morgan keeps up his current play, RoJo somehow regains his old perimeter shooting form, Green can develop some offensive consistency that can be trusted nightly, and Davis gets his free throw stroke back. Gosh, if RoJo and Green could get consistent offensively, this can be a really good team.

This is my own completely made-up perception, but I think Archie is really putting an emphasis on this "inside/out" approach. He made another reference in his Andy Katz interview this week to building from Indiana and the Midwest out. Again, my own made-up perception, but I think he's come to the conclusion that Brooks, TJD and Watford aren't all going to go to the same school, so he's probably prioritizing the Indiana guys over a kid from Alabama (even though his brother played here). I'm assuming that he wants/would take Watford, but he probably sees more long-term value in terms of in-state relationships, etc., in landing Brooks and TJD.

Agree, he'd be stupid not to test the waters and get the feedback.

Bryant is a way better athlete than Davis. I could see him going, since these things are difficult to predict and crazier things have happened in terms of leaving early, but I just don't see how he fits into today's NBA. He kind of reminds me of the offensive version of Kendrick Perkins. Perk was excellent on defense and pretty poor offensively, but both are lumbering big men that play below the rim and lack athleticism. He's going to have incorporate a consistent 10-12 ft jumper as well.

We've been begging for a coach that tightens the rotation and limits the crazy subbing, especially in big games. Remember a couple years ago we played Louisville in NYC and for some inexplicable reason Crean threw April out there in the first half of a close game, I think it might have even been the last couple minutes of the half, and all of the sudden Louisville went on a run, and then just blew us out in the 2nd half? I am in no way comparing Justin Smith to April as a player, but that is why Smith only played 2 minutes. That was a big time game, and in those games a good coach is going to roll with the guys he trusts and not mess around. Smith has been really good so far, and I'm not saying Archie doesn't trust him, but it's clear at this point, in that game, he wanted to go with Hartman and McRoberts, two kids who have been there and done that to an extent.

Because we don't have great shooters. It's really as simple as that. Over the last two years IU has lost Yogi, Biefeltd, Zeisloft, JBJ, Bryant, etc. Those guys were good to great shooters. Our two best shooters now are RoJo (very streaky) and Hartman (often injured). Green and Newkirk are also streaky, Durham and Morgan aren't good shooters, etc. It's just a talent issue. Edit: I'm referring to the 3-pt shooting, not as much free throw shooting.

I'll say this, last night's game is what you live for as a basketball player. You live for those atmospheres. It's why you go to schools like Indiana, Duke, Michigan State, etc. You get a similar atmosphere at IU several times a season, you may never get that atmosphere at Vanderbilt. I don't know how anyone that plays basketball, other a hometown thing (Garland) or a lower level player worried about playing time, can choose Vanderbilt over Indiana after watching last night's game/atmosphere. There are a lot of reasons why kids pick certain schools, I get it, but when you strip the game down to why players play, games like last night are why you put all the work in and what gets the juices flowing.

I don't mean to bash Crean, but it was so refreshing to watch a game of that caliber and see a team that was so well prepared and coached, and at no point did I think the coaching on either side was anything but level. Archie had the team extremely prepared, he had a game-plan that was effective and the players clearly understood, and his adjustments/substitutions made complete sense. We got a good one, now it's just a matter of time in terms of how quickly he can ramp the talent level he has to work with.

No clue if any of that it true or not. But one thing to remember is that a kid and his family can be of the highest caliber (not shady at all), but that doesn't mean there aren't some people around them trying to cash in without their knowledge.

His coaching background was pretty sketchy prior though. He trained his kids and did some AAU coaching (he has 8) and then got the Mizzou girls bbal opps job and later assistant job while his two oldest girls played there. Romar then hired him with that as his coaching background. He was hired by Romar and immediately made the highest paid assistant on that staff (with zero experience coaching men's college basketball) and another assistant had to be demoted to an operations role. To be fair, Romar and the Dad have a history together. Romar coached the father when he played for Athletes in Action.

You got it! Good memory, I had to look it up (used Rivals).

Also, just to be clear, I don't mean to insinuate the Langford family is shady or looking to break rules. There's ways for recruiting to go sideways and shady things to go on without the family being directly involved or even having knowledge of it.

I have no idea, but if what has been alluded to is true, that Shittu was almost locked up for Arizona before the FBI issue changed things, then I'd say it's close to being "Ole Miss Football" suspicious. We also know either UNC tried to get involved and couldn't, or something made Shittu not interested in UNC. Seems rare for a kid to shun even visiting UNC (coming immediately off a Natty) because he's so set on Vanderbilt. I did a little digging and other classes similar to this include California's 2015 class (2 top 10 guys) and Georgia Tech's 2006 class (2 top 10 guys). I think we all wonder about Cuonzo Martin given how things played out with the Porter's, and for Georgia Tech I don't know much about it, but they were coming off a National Title Game appearance two years prior.

It's just hard to believe because it's literally never happened before at a school like Vandy (meaning 3 top 10 guys). No coach ever has pulled of something like this at a school like Vandy, let alone in his really first recruiting cycle, and being a coach with no experience recruiting at this level. The closest comparable might be Kansas St. landing Beasley and Bill Walker, but again I think we're all pretty sure that was shady and at least the coach then was Huggins who has been a high major coach for a long time.

I don't even think "rare" is the word, it's unprecedented. I'm not sure 3 top 10 recruits to a program like Vandy has ever happened, at least not in the modern era. I really hate being the "we lost a recruit, the other school must be cheating" guy. It's really not my style, but if Drew pulls this off, it's literally one of, if the the, best recruiting coups ever. And again, it's not like he got hired at UCLA, this is Vanderbilt.

Agree. They'll be competitive with three guys of that caliber, but IMO they won't be a title contender or a real national threat. Things could change based on other additions, etc., but if you just add those 3 guys to their existing roster (minus seniors leaving), they're going to struggle. I think they'll be closer to LSU the Ben Simmons year (though not quite as bad) than anything Duke or UK has done with their one and done factories. The other aspect is that it's a huge challenge to have that much young talent on one team. Coach K and Cal have tons of experience with managing these ego's, etc. Their systems and programs are set-up to manage the one and dones and what comes with that, and even with them their best teams were the ones that had some senior leadership and veterans, which Vandy won't have. If they land all three, Drew is going to have his hands full managing this, and at a school that really isn't set-up for it or has any experience with this type of situation. They could be really good, but I think it could also be just as likely that it goes the other way. I'm sure the response will be that Archie doesn't have experience with this either. But, it's a lot different having one of those guys as opposed to three, and while Archie doesn't, IU does. IU as a program/school has had guys of this caliber and there is support staff around that has done this before.

Need to grab one regardless.

Which also begs the question, why isn’t anyone asking Romeo if any IU recruits are pitching him? Many of them were at HH too, so it’s not like they don’t know him. Also, while they’re not top 10 players, IU has some talented kids coming in, so why know narrative about wanting to join these guys?