Bigred3588

Exactly. And the backcourt fouls just raise another question. Archie has publicly stated that he prioritizes transition defense over rebounding, which leads me to believe players aren’t doing what they’re told. I’m not at the practices and could obviously be dead wrong but it does make me wonder.

That has definitely hurt us on more than one occasion. I expected it against Duke but it’s definitely happening more than it should at this stage in his career. What really gets me is the type of fouls he commits. He often guards larger players and I could understand if he was picking up fouls from trying to match their physicality, but a lot of his fouls are just stupid hand check types of mistakes.

Took me a minute to find it...

I do think Juwan does a good job of leading by example. However, a leader is more than that IMO. I see a leader as the type of guy that goes to the press conference after a loss and takes personal responsibility for the performance of the entire team. They establish themselves as leader through their attitude and their teammates buy in because they know that guy will back it up. They make sure the ball is in their hands when it matters. They know everyone’s role and coach their teammates during the game. And the most important attribute in my eyes; they don’t hesitate to hold their teammates accountable. Some people cringe when they see teammates squabble, but I’d be ecstatic if Juwan got in someone’s face. “Evan, you’re hurting the entire team every time you miss a rotation. Fix it. And Devonte, take another god**** floater and you won’t even see the ball until the second half.” I don’t think it’s a lack of effort on Juwan’s part by any means. I just think it takes a certain kind of personality to be a consummate leader. If I’m being blunt, you have to be a bit of an a**hole, but you’re respected for it.

I literally just grimaced reading that. I wouldn’t want that mentality anywhere around my program.

Oh I don’t think we’ll always look like crap. It’s the same offense that handed Purdue their worst home loss in team history and ran on UNC like they were a high school team. The difference is that Crean teams had to play like that every game if they wanted a shot at winning. Miller’s scheme promotes the same offensive output but keeps us in a position to win if we have an off night or a team manages to lock us down. Those will be the ugly ones. And yes, you can win like that. Wisconsin was brutal to watch under Ryan but they won for years because Ryan knew the importance of controlling pace and developed his players accordingly.

Most of the negatives you mention stem from our system. Our defense comes with a trade off: If you have 5 players on the court that know and execute their roles, it’s excellent. However, it can be broken with one mistake. This means that you have to be able to substitute in a way that doesn’t affect the unit, which is only possible if everyone has bought in and knows their role. I’m sure you’re starting to see where the problem lies here. That, in turn, hurts our offense. Miller’s offense is very similar to Crean’s in that it relies on transition opportunities. When the defense breaks, that doesn’t happen. Add the fact that we basically run a dribble drive without the necessary shooters to open lanes, and you have the recipe for a scoring draught. Finally, if all of the above happens consistently enough, apathy will set in. Most people will only carry another persons weight for so long before they say “to hell with it.” And it happens even faster when you have guys on the team that didn’t sign up to play that style of basketball.

I agree, and I think Archie will probably always be a polarizing coach due to his approach. I expect that he’ll establish a program that wins consistently, but fans are probably going to be disappointed if they’re expecting the beautiful half court offense and sharpshooting that they associate with Indiana basketball. That just isn’t his system. I want to see us win as badly as everyone else, but consistency is more important to me than immediate gratification. It sucks to admit but the reality is we’re back at square one in terms of building a program. Personally, I’m willing to be patient. Archie is young, has the potential to lead a winning program for the next 30 years, and intends to do it with Indiana talent. That’s something I’m willing to wait for. And hey, if it doesn’t work, we can go the Kentucky route that some are suggesting. I just don’t care to watch a team of mercenaries audition for NBA scouts.

I completely understand our fan base’s impatience but I just don’t see 3 years as enough time to establish consistency. I think you can win in that amount of time by taking what you have and catering to your strengths, but you can’t do that and establish a system at the same time. Adapting to your roster also affects recruiting because it makes it difficult to pitch a kid on their role. As painful as it is to watch, a winning program has to be built. It can be expedited with the right transfers and/or recruits but that isn’t guaranteed. It can also be done with talent and a basic scheme. Unfortunately, in our case, we’re building for a system that’s predicated on chemistry. It’s also a system that isn’t commonly used at lower levels. With a 3 year time frame, you’re basically telling Archie “You have 3 years to implement a chemistry-based system to players that have never practiced it and may or may not know each other. Oh, by the way, you’re inheriting a team that wasn’t required to play defense and you won’t have any players that you recruited in your first year. We’re gonna need you to deal with it and wait until year 2 to really get started. Half of the team will be guys that you recruited, and I’m sure they’ll pick it right up. You should really be rolling by year 3. If all those 18 and 19 year olds aren’t finishing near the top of the conference, you’re fired.”

Absolutely. We need the guards. I feel sleazy saying it but I find myself really wishing Archie had poached that kid that had committed to Dayton and ended up going out west.

I’d agree on Fitzner and Thompson but that’s about it. Softness, IMO, is apathy mixed with fear of physicality. A lack of confidence is not the same thing, and that’s what I see with Anderson. He clearly isn’t comfortable and you’re not going to see aggressive play from a guy that feels out of place. That doesn’t mean he’s afraid to mix it up, it just means he’s afraid of making mistakes. Romeo has no problem putting his head down and driving into the paint. He rebounds and makes hustle plays as well. He doesn’t back down from physical play, he just hasn’t adjusted to certain aspects e.g. fighting through screens. Not unusual for a freshman. And I don’t think he’s apathetic either. He’s very good at maintaining composure but he has let the mask slip in the past. I remember it happening a couple times his senior year and it was clear the kid doesn’t like losing. As far as Rob goes, I don’t see where you can come up with TBD. I can understand questioning Romeo and Damezi, but everything I’ve seen from RP screams leader. He’s on the smaller side and obviously has no problem going at the rim (even when it’s I’ll advised). And how many freshman do you see that don’t hesitate to take the big shot late in a game? I’m not just talking about Butler; we’ve gotten a couple other wins that turned on a clutch shot from Rob. Hell, the only time I’ve gotten annoyed with Rob was the final play of the Arkansas game and that was because he was too aggressive. Jerome can obviously be labeled TBD but his high school career was promising. He had some of his best games against guys that were ranked more highly. Some might look at that as playing down to the competition but he never really laid any eggs. To me, that’s the sign of a competitor.

I think the chemistry alone will be a major contribution. I don’t think a lot of people really understand how our scheme is supposed to work. It’s basically Crean’s offensive approach, but great team defense (not deflections) is supposed to trigger transition offense. The pack line can be highly effective but it relies on chemistry and is easily broken with a single weak link. Thompson and Hunter haven’t seen PT, but they will have a rapport with most of their teammates and have also practiced with them. This also amplifies the impact of our injuries. You’re forced to throw lineups on the floor that you wouldn’t otherwise use and expect them to play as a single cohesive unit. It simply won’t work as intended unless all 5 players have a firm grasp on their roles. At this point, our guys don’t.

That Dayton team only had one player that was ranked in the top 200 out of high school IIRC. If Miller can take that team to an Elite 8, I think he can replicate it with better players. And I think that’s exactly what he’s doing with kids like Phinisee, Franklin, Anderson, etc... He’s establishing the foundation and culture he needs for his system to work. When you have upperclassmen like that and throw in a blue chip freshman or two, you have the recipe for success.

I’m sure I’m gonna get slammed by some with the whole “how many years did we waste with Crean blah blah blah,” but hang with me. Let’s look at the roster and what Archie has been working with. Devonte Green - (Crean Recruit) He’s basically a wash. Has the occasional good performance but his decision making is terrible and hurts the team in ways that don’t show up on the stat sheet. This was one of Creans boom/bust signings and he just hasn’t gotten it together. Also injured for part of the season. Can’t put this on Archie; he didn’t recruit him and he doesn’t have much of an alternative. Plus, Devonte isn’t a pure point. Rob Phinisee - Overall a plus and looks to be the future floor general, but he’s a freshman that probably wouldn’t be starting yet on most top teams. Still, best option at PG. Injured for part of the season. Plus for Archie on the recruiting front and I fully expect a former D1 PG to develop RP further. Al Durham - (Crean Recruit) Low ranked combo guard that probably wouldn’t be expected to contribute much until year three. Taking that into consideration, I think he’s most improved and has been a pleasant surprise. However, still not to the point to warrant serious PT. Plus for Archie; I think his staff has done well developing Durham. Romeo Langford - Limitless potential, but he’s currently a SG that cant really shoot. He excels at finishing but defenses are sagging off and shutting down the driving lanes and we don’t have any shooters to open them up. Also, IMO, he’s too unselfish. He still needs to work on his confidence, realize that he can take over a game, and do it. We’ve seen flashes but we’ve yet to see him really break out. Also, unknown wrist/hand injury. Some people blast Archie for the way he uses Langford, but it would be an ideal scheme for him if we had the shooters. Damezi Anderson - Clearly not ready to contribute. He is the consummate freshman; lost on both ends of the court. Jury will probably be out for a year or two as Damezi is the kind of guy that’s recruited for development and, eventually, senior leadership. Justin Smith - (Crean Recruit) Still a lot of raw, untapped potential. Decent defender but needs a good deal of development on the offensive end and doesn’t make the greatest decisions. Another guy that probably shouldn’t see the kind of PT he’s getting at this point in his career. I’m still withholding judgment because i think the potential is there and I can’t knock Archie because of the limited options. Juwan Morgan - (Crean Recruit) Juwan had his breakout season under Archie and has picked up where he left off. Love Juwan, but he was never meant to be the feature player. He’s had to play out of position quite a bit and has played his part without complaint. Gotta give him credit for that and he has done it well. It’s just too bad we haven’t had the post players to put him where he belongs. Definitely can’t knock Archie for his development or use of Juwan. Jerome Hunter - Expected to be an important part of the rotation and hasn’t played due to injury. Not on Archie. Race Thompson - See Jerome Hunter De’Ron Davis - (Crean Recruit) I feel bad for Deron because I think he could’ve been a very good player, but I’m not sure he’ll ever really bounce back from the injuries. He just doesn’t have the athleticism or mobility to compete at a high level right now. As much as a like him, he hasn’t been able to contribute. This is not on Archie. Clifton Moore - (Crean Recruit) Looking like he may work out, but he’s yet another player being thrust into games in which he probably shouldn’t see PT. He’s much like Anderson; a developmental player that’s meant to lay a foundation as an upperclassman. Hard to fault Archie as I suspect he didn’t expect Moore to see the floor much this year, and he has shown flashes of potential. Jake Forrester - See Clifton Moore, minus the PT. Also, I believe there have been injury issues. Withholding judgment due to lack of a sample size. Evan Fitzner - Swing and a miss. Archie clearly recognized the need for a guy that could spread the court, but Fitzner hasn’t fit the bill. His defense is downright bad and he contributes nothing on offense. Archie that the right idea, it just didn’t play out as hoped. Archie does lose points for giving Fitzner as much run as he’s had. All that said, let’s take stock: 1 True PG (Injury), 2 combo guards (1 w/ injury), 2 shooting guards (1 w/ injury), 4 small forwards (2 w/ injuries), 4 power forwards/centers (2 w/ injuries). 6 Crean recruits - Green, Durham, Smith, Morgan, Davis, Moore 7 Miller Recruits - Phinisee, Langford, Anderson, Hunter, Thompson, Forrester, Fitzner So, basically, we’ve had 6 scholarship players consistently healthy and one (Langford) playing through injury: Durham, Smith, Morgan, Moore, Anderson, and Fitzner. This equates to 1 backup CG, 1 starting SG, 1 backup SG, 1 starting SF, 1 backup SF, and 2 backup PF/Centers. Not exactly the lineup we were anticipating at the start of the year, and it’s hard to make much progress in practice when it’s basically your backups vs your walk-ons. Then we take our 7-8 man rotation of guys, most of which shouldn’t be seeing the kind of minutes they’re getting, and march them out on the court with no leadership. We’re thin on upperclassmen’s as it is and the healthy ones are Green, Morgan, and Fitzner. Hard as it is to believe, Green probably had the personality to do it but just wasn’t capable. Morgan and Fitzner don’t have the personality and were never meant for that role.

I agree to an extent, but there are definitely still guys out there that play with some fire. I think a big part of the reason Zion is the consensus #1 is because NBA teams see a kid that would run through a brick wall to make a play. And I doubt anyone is laughing at him lol. Mac McClung and Nico Mannion are a couple other guys I’ve seen that fit that mold. Opposing high school players told McClung he was going to G’Town to sit and he’d light em up like a Christmas tree (having a solid frosh season too). Mannion also turns it to 11 at the slightest provocation. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the apathy has a lot to do with the way the game is coached/officiated nowadays. When I was growing up, you didn’t give up layups. Period. Naturally, games got pretty rough and it became a matter of pride. That kind of play isn’t allowed anymore and I think competitiveness has taken a hit because of it. I don’t think nearly as many players take it personal.

I think it all depends on how you want to define "blue blood." If blue blood is history and tradition, IU will always be a blue blood. If you define it as sustained success, I'd have to say we have lost blue blood status. In terms of coverage, IU will generally get paired with other top programs and the team will be nationally televised for years to come; but it won't necessarily be because we're considered a blue blood program. IU has a very large alumni base and is the state school in a state that produces a lot of talent and will always be linked to the sport. TV stations show the games that draw the most viewers and IU fits that mold regardless of their performance in a given year. Now, if fans become apathetic and stop watching, that's another story...

I’m pretty much dumbfounded with this one. Thought we’d come back from Maryland with some fire. Didn’t expect an @$$ beating from Nebraska.

Nebraska players don’t even need to be on their feet to thwart our offense

He announced today that he’s redshirting

Lol Nebraska’s coach, paraphrased “Guard Romeo and Morgan. Don’t worry about anyone else.”

If you want to score on IU, just throw it near the rim. Pretty much guaranteed nobody will be there to rebound and your teammate will get the tip.

I’m taking a shot every time we hit two FTs in a row. I should be stone sober by the end of the game.

Fitzgerald is in the game right there why?

I like what Moore has done but he also just blew the switch that led to that 3 by Nebraska

This is verging on the worst half of offense I’ve ever seen in my life. 9 points in the first 14 minutes?