Old Friend

I'd far rather see him on the block with his back to the basket a-la Juwon Morgan than try to develop an outside game. Why can't he be Dennis Rodman? Why can't he be Stacey Augmon? Why can't he be Juwon Morgan (the on the block version)? Why can't he be Horace Grant? I don't need to see him shooting more than 15 three's all season.

Texas Tech didn't have a single top 100 recruit on the roster and made the Final Four. We had a top 25 talent a year ago. We had Noah Vonleh at one time. We had Bracey Wright at one time. We had Eric Gordon at one time. We had Thomas Bryant at one time. Give me depth, experience, basketball IQ and length. Top 25 guys on a team with only one or maybe two almost always have different agendas and that has a tendency to divide a team. We DO have Ohio Mr. Basketball for 2018 and Indiana Mr. Basketball for 2019. We have plenty of talent. That's not bent out of shape. That's me saying top 25 guys aren't the end all, be all. How many recently successful teams can we name who haven't had one? Again, it shocks me that the focus tends to be on what we don't have; and then extrapolates into "fire so and so" because we don't. Do we want a team with one or two and done NBA guys or do we want to build a "get old and stay old" program? I much prefer the latter, but that means fewer top 25, different agenda guys. We don't need a top 25 guy. We either need 4-5 of them every year, or we need players who will stay 3-4 years. Those are the formulas for success. Having a single "proven top 25 guy" has proven non-successful, and I wonder why that's what people want.

Indiana 45 Rutgers 20

You all are selling him way short. I won't say any more than that. Granted, from 3 games; but you can see the skill set. (#5 is Cam Jordan. He's a high level football recruit (WR) and a good friend of my son's. Kid worth rooting for if you're so inclined)

Re-read what I said. I didn't say I think he'll produce the same; I said I don't know of anything Romeo could do that Franklin can't as a freshman. Very similar skill set. Romeo may be have been more experienced against better players in the summer, but he was also over rated. He wasn't a top 10 player. Hell, by one service's rankings he was rated 6th. Zion Williamson was 5th. All I said was Franklin will contribute and he's a better player than many have given him credit for.

I am one opinion based solely on what I have seen, but Franklin is very able to help immediately. He can play the 2 or 3, can shoot, he's athletic and very strong, good finisher, great defender, and I saw him get an easy 30 against Lawrence North in the sectionals last year ...and LN had 3 D1 kids on the team. I don't think he starts, but I absolutely think he plays meaningful minutes. I have said and I'll stand by that I don't know what Romeo can do that Franklin can't.

I don't think there's any question DeVonte starts. He was named a captain, and his play the last 2-3 weeks of the season a year ago really encouraged me. FAR less "bad DeVonte" and far fewer bad shots and poor decision making. His defense was also better. I've been as hard as anyone on him, but he really impressed me and I hope that player continues to develop. He's a tough one because he's not a pure point and a little small to be a 2; but that's what he is on this team. That will likely force us to go bigger at the 3, which makes Durham the odd man out. I think we'll end up starting Phinisee, Green, Hunter, Smith, and Jackson-Davis. I think Brunk will play 18-20 minutes every night; I think Davis will play 15, I think Franklin is capable of much more, but I think he'll only play 12-15 minutes or so; Durham is the one I think will end up getting 20+ minutes off the bench. Not sure what Thompson and Anderson will get, but probably not 15 minutes between them. Indiana has good problems and not a whole lot of drop off because I think we have 8 starters. (Brunk, Durham, and Franklin the other 3 who I don't believe will start) Man, I hope we stay healthy.

Sigh. I have said this in one way or another 100 times. If he doesn't produce, you'll all get your wish. If he does? You'll have to eat crow. Why does the past matter one bit? We have different players and different coaches. I sincerely don't understand why that's been so difficult to understand. NO coach has ever won until he has. If he doesn't, he gets fired eventually. It's not as if Indiana gave the guy a lifetime deal. 'I AM saying the past is the past and has nothing to do with where we are now. Not every coach wins immediately or with someone else's players and scheme.

The past has nothing to do with where we are now. Depth and Penix make a huge difference. We're better than Illinois and Purdue. As good as Minnesota, Nebraska, and Northwestern, and I think competitive with Iowa. In the East, there are 3 NCAA football blue bloods who will ALWAYS spend more money than Indiana and will ALWAYS have far greater recruiting clout. While some in the west have more clout, I'd argue none have nearly as much as the "big 3" do in the east. Indiana got screwed w divisions. There's really no way around that, but damn, I want to beat Michigan.

My point East v West is in the West, there are no teams about whom I can reasonably say "Indiana cannot and will not ever consistently reach that level." In the East, there are 3. Indiana can and likely will beat those 3 every now and then, but more often than not, Indiana will lose those 3 games. That's just reality, and it's very simply a far more difficult division for Indiana to expect consistent success. As I mentioned earlier, if Indiana takes the "throw money at it" approach and gains on those 3 programs, it's foolish to think they would simply stand pat. All 3 would make immediate changes if they - by their standards - "dropped" enough to let Indiana catch them and stay there. That's why I don't think Indiana is that far off from its reasonable ceiling. It's NOT reasonable to start with those 3 games and then go undefeated in the other 9 on a regular basis. 7-2 is more reasonable and 6-3 is probably more realistic. 6-3 makes us 6-6; and that's a pretty good season for Indiana. 8-4 would be a GREAT season for us. It's hard for me to believe it's reasonable to expect 8-1 in our other 9 games on a regular basis. I'd love a show of hands to see who really believes Indiana can regularly beat Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State.

To be very honest, I don't remember one thing from you. I have no idea what you've said or haven't said. But if you're in that group, I'll put you there if you want to be. If you believe "throwing money at it" is the solution, I'll refer you to my point above and you can put yourself in whatever category you'd like. How's that?

No. I don't know why you keep assuming so. If it was pointed at you, I'd quote you. Relax and smile.

The record in the past is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Indiana is better now than we were in the past. We are easily deeper than our bowl teams from a few years ago, and we have come out of the tunnel from a QB who limited us offensively. My biggest gripe about Tom Allen was his insistence that we start Peyton Ramsey over Penix a year ago. Penix was DeBord's guy and he got over-ruled. Recruiting is better. No, it's not with Michigan, OSU, PSU, etc., but it's also not going to be. Indiana will never be on that level as a football program...or not consistently. Those of you who think "throw money at it" is the answer, what happens when we get close to that level? You think those programs are going to stand still and just accept it? They have a hell of a lot more money to throw at it than we do. Indiana football - right now - is in good shape relative to our standards. If the record doesn't show it this season and/or next? You'll get your wish. But....firing Tom Allen now is nothing more than a vindictive wish because some don't like him. There is no justifiable reason to fire him now....regardless of what our history is and regardless of what you think of Fred Glass. What you want from him and his actual job are different things

What isn't true? Do you have any idea what you're talking about or is all you have "fire ______!"? I'm starting to believe you've never set foot in a locker room and don't know what you're watching....or you're so buried in "fire _____," you can't be objective. Speaking of narratives.... And it's not a narrative on my end. It's simple reality you refuse to accept because of your.....um....narrative. It's a hell of a lot more reasonable than "fire _____" with absolutely zero reasonable rationale for doing so. I'm not all in on Allen, but I'm also not convinced it was a bad hire. How many times do you need to be asked the question "who can we go get?" before you'll answer it? If I'm dug into a narrative, that should be a pretty easy question to answer. You'd be great at dodgeball. And for the last time....Glass isn't my buddy. I just think it's idiotic to say "Fire ______" because you don't care for one small part of his job you don't think he did well. The state of IU athletics and IU football is far better than you think, and I've never seen anyone so "all in" on failure so he can be "right" in his own mind with a bunch of people he doesn't know.

1) The 3 point lead isn't at all what I'm referring to and it's also not the point. The punt return with the hold away from the play in the 3rd quarter stands without the penalty, we easily take a 2 score lead and their defense was gassed. Done. Very different outcome without the penalty. 2) Narrative? No. Just the real state of the program where it is right now. You guys can deny it all you want, but Indiana is far better now than we have been in a long time.

For some perspective on where Indiana "really" is - current Sagarin (objective, non-biased) NCAA football rankings for Big Ten : Ohio State #1 Penn State #4 Wisconsin #10 Michigan State #16 Michigan #17 Iowa #19 Nebraska #36 Maryland #47 Indiana #48 Northwestern #56 Minnesota #57 Purdue #80 Illinois #98 Rutgers #134 So...you want to fire a coach who has Indiana in the top 50 programs in the country; who had #16 beat on the road; whose recruiting classes are at a level never before seen at Indiana; who has a quarterback who looks like a kid who might be drafted; who has built better team speed and better depth than we've ever had. And you want to do this to go get....who? Another guy you'll want fired when he does something you don't like? Indiana is in the same division with FOUR top 20 rated teams. And you think someone is going to come in and immediately change it....to....what? And that guy will stay, right? Logic seems to have no place here, sometimes.

No. You're the one melting down when they support him and support Fred Glass.

He looked like a completely different player the last 2-3 weeks last season. Good for him.

We don't even try???? Did you watch Saturday? That's just inaccurate. Recruiting is WAY better. Better than Hieponer, better than Wilson. More money being spent on facilities and coaches. Don't even try??? Are you serious?? The quality and state of this team is at a higher level than it's been since 1988. Open your eyes. I haven't ever mentioned MSU in any of my posts, and have consistently used 4th place as a consistent goal. If you believe Indiana can consistently beat OSU, PSU, and UM minus a Jerry Sandusky scandal, I'll smoke what you're smoking. Does Nebraska try in basketball?

So you're telling me you can't see what's happening and extrapolate that into the direction of the program? You're telling me the best you can do is look backward solely at numbers without taking circumstances into account, and base your opinions off of nothing but raw data? And you think this season hinges on Green? Really? Are you really unable to see the changes in depth? The additions to the front court which will allow everyone to play where they fit? No offense, and I don't mean this as a personal attack, but if you truly can't see the team as constructed now vs last season, eliminate the one and done mindset and agenda, elimination of weak links, added depth and talent, the addition of Hunter, another year of experience, health, and playing kids in their best positions...you don't know what you're talking about. We are longer, more athletic, bigger, faster, more experienced, healthier, and deeper than a year ago. Last season we had at least 4 players (Moore, Forrester, Fitzner, McRoberts) who were weak links in one way or another. All are gone. Replaced with Indiana Mr. Basketball in Davis, a versatile and athletic Franklin, who I have seen enough to tell you is a very good player; Joey Brunk who's an experienced big who gives Indiana something they sorely lacked a year ago; and Hunter who was Mr. Basketball in Ohio two years ago. You're telling me you can't make that connection? I don't buy it. I think you're choosing not to.

The reality of our situation is we will start every season 0-3. We'll beat Michigan and PSU once in a while, but not very often. Despite what anyone wants, those two and OSU have 100+ years of history on their sides and million$ more than we'll ever have to spend on football. So, to be in the middle every year, Indiana needs to go 6-0, 5-1, or 4-2 in the other games every year; AND win all 3 non-conference games. That's absolutely why our non-conference schedule is weak....we need guaranteed wins to offset the probable losses or we'll dig ourselves a hole we can't get out of. There just isn't any margin for error with Indiana. Indiana is a basketball school. Basketball drives our bus. That's reality. Arguing against it (not you, just making a point) does nothing to change it.

Appreciate your sharing. Substantiates several things I've said, including teams in the Big Ten East (4 ahead of IU) vs. West (2 ahead of IU), and the fact that we're overall a pretty good team. There are many better, and we play 4 of them. We'll see how we do against those below us. Then we can talk about what needs to happen in the future with more logic.

Okay, this is for Hoosierfan 2017. Offering you an olive branch. I will happily outline every argument I have. I've not intentionally talked down to YOU, but I find some of your arguments without merit, and when I've asked you to substantiate them, you haven't. But....I get why you haven't. So....I'll simply offer this, for no other reason than it's a similar point to the one I've made but about a completely unrelated team. Change the number to 100 and THIS is one reason I don't think it's as simple as "fire the coach!"