Old Friend

It's not all about the geography.  I could have worded that better.    Geographically, Crean has not focused as much as he could and in their opinion (and mine) should locally.  He doesn't ignore it, but he has at least an equal if not stronger focus on the east coast where most kids think of Indiana as just another school...which has not helped the local reputation.  He's allowed that to happen and much is on him.  Much is on Davis for doing the same thing, only he focused south.  It's about the right kids as much as the local kids.     Hollowell had a horrible reputation as a selfish player with no work ethic when he got to Indiana, but Crean signed him anyway, and he turned out to be exactly what everyone said he was.   Patterson was always an academic risk.  Good kid, not cut out for college.  Blackmon can't guard and has never shown any interest in defense....even in high school and AAU.  Those aren't secrets.   The right kids...kids who understand the game and not just the sport.  Kids who don't always need the ball.  Kids who understand things like spacing and angles and help defense.  Indiana will never be a place where those things don't play and aren't highly valued.  See : Butler.  Crean doesn't work very hard recruiting.  He thinks he does because he spends a lot of time on social media, on the phone, and traveling; but he's not done a good job vetting kids and making sure their character fits what Indiana needs and what fans and former players expect.   The issue is lack of what they believe is proper focus on doing things the way they're expected at Indiana because that's the bar they set.  The tradition they built.  And it's been cast aside in favor of...what?     That's the deal...not necessarily a sole problem with "local."

There are 50+ former IU players who feel betrayed and who are bitter about what's happened down there.  There is a long story behind all of this; and I don't know that I've got every detail right; but I promise this is pretty close, and the Pitino point I'll make is absolutely 100% fact, though I doubt many know about it.   Many don't know the story, so here it is...   When Knight was fired and replaced with Davis, many former IU guys thought after that season, IU should have done a search and included a few of them.  At the time, Alford was the name flying around, but Woodson was mentioned, Wittman was mentioned, and I think others were suggested.  Smart, maybe....don't remember.  Alford was never contacted, and I have heard multiple times he and Wittman both contacted IU, but were not called back.   Then, when Davis quit, again, they felt like an IU guy should be considered or at least be given an opportunity.  At that time, the overwhelming name was Wittman, and many of the old players contacted IU on his behalf including many on the 1976 team.  You may have heard Kitchell's dis-pleasure at the time, but he in particular was very vocal.   Another guy IU could have had at the time was Rick Pitino, who absolutely knew what he was asking for, and he'd have been okay with most of the former players because he would have had several IU guys involved.  His best friend was and is very active on the IU Foundation, and Pitino pro-actively called IU telling them he wanted our job.  Indiana instead says no thanks, and hires Sampson because he's a minority.  That's what happened.  Adam Herbert wants to keep the NAACP off his back and show the world Davis' forced resignation was not racial; but in reality, he never should have been the permanent coach in the first place.  Since he was, Herbert (who is an abject moron) felt he had to make a statement.   Sampson gets hired, and you all know the mess that happened with Benson, etc. Dakich was as upset as anyone both times because he too felt Indiana should have kept things in the family, but was upset - as many players were - because the administration kept making decision after decision NOT to.  But...Sampson comes calling when the sparks start to fly.  Needs stability on his staff, and Dakich swallows the sword.  Takes a job on Sampson's staff.      Sampson's situation explodes, Dakich is there to break the fall and takes over a complete mess of a program, which he begins to clean up because he knows it needs to be done...and most importantly, understands WHY.   What was going on is not okay at Indiana, and he knew it.  Goes to work on hitting the reset button, even though he knows it'll cost IU games and probably a season.   Gets rid of bad apples (guys smoking pot in the locker room, not going to class, etc) like Armon Bassett, etc..  Turns everything over so the cupboard is bare, and Indiana can start over.  Only he's not given a chance at the job.  No "IU guy" is granted as much as a phone call, let alone an interview.   So he's upset...as are many former players, and they have every right to be.  Hell, I'M upset.  And I understand without question of any issue at all.  I agree with all of them.   You all can make this solely about Dakich, but it's not.  It's not about his being the right fit or not.  It's about how things have been handled, and how the program's been handled and dealt with since Knight was fired.  These guys all built the program all of us want back.  They feel like they should have some voice in how the program moves forward, and it can be argued whether or not they deserve it; but the way they've all been treated is flat disrespectful in their eyes, and I agree with them 100%.     The fact is, Indiana's decision to hire Mike Davis was a bad one, and IU has never recovered.  They've continued to make bad decisions, and the Sampson hire was the straw that broke the camel's back.  More and more former IU players came out against it and many said they'd never return...including Benson and Scott May, who was also unhappy with the way his son Sean was or was not recruited by Indiana.  The players are very upset at past and current administrations; and even Crean's hiring and devoiding his bench of IU guys was not well received, until he hired Calbert Cheaney.  He has since reached out to most all of the former players, but the reality is most still see the off court crap and lack of discipline, along with the lack of local recruiting focus and kids coming here who have no clue where they are; and they're still upset.  And I don't blame them.  I know a few personally, and they feel the same way Dakich does.  Dakich just has a radio show and is on TV a lot.  Brian Evans is not.  Michael Lewis is not.  Tom Abernathy is not.  Etc.     This is not about Dakich being the coach or not being the coach.  His coaching record is 159-144 and he has zero post season victories.  He's smarter than that.  He knows his resume does not qualify him.   But he DOES understand Indiana Basketball and the culture it used to promote.  He DOES care about getting that back.  This is about an administration making conscious decisions to go away from their roots and away from their culture.  The more it fails and the more time that passes; the more they (and I, and many others) get upset because it's embarrassing.   Indiana is a special, unique place.  Dakich beliieves it, I believe it, and I know lots of others believe it.   Then you have the group that thinks he's pissed simply because he didn't get the IU head coach's job.  Most are likely younger and don't really know the whole story.  This ain't about Dan Dakich.  It ain't that simple;that's not why he's upset, and it's a lot deeper than that. 

Butler is a perfect illustration of why Tom Crean doesn't need to do anything but go get smart basketball players who can play as a unit and improve as a coach so he can game plan and execute like Holtmann has Butler executing.  Same as Stevens did.  Culture.     He doesn't need to worry about "stars" or ratings.   He doesn't need to recruit kids with ball skills.  And he doesn't need to recruit kids with an agenda.  Butler has won for years because they've been generally efficient on the offensive end, and their coaches have been brilliant on the defensive end.  They're smart, they play well together, and not one of their players was a McD's All American or will be an NBA player.  They're just tough, smart, committed to defense, and unselfish.   Maybe Chris Holtmann just made the list?  He may not be Brad Stevens, but he coaches like him.  Butler plays the way I love watching basketball, and they're (today) a far better team than Purdue, who is the more talented group by far.

Why?  

Experience is the best teacher in the world.     Dakich has been inside this program.  He knows the history, the mentality, the people, the reasons, where the bodies are buried, the mistakes, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  When it comes to Indiana basketball, he knows far more than any of us, and that's a simple fact of life.  Denying that is naive and completely idiotic.  As is denying that experienced people know more and are right when they speak from that experience most of the time.   And he's several years older than I am.  

Look, I don't care if people agree with Dakich or not.   I happen to most of the time, but that's not the point.   This is a guy who knows more about this program - the one we all care about - than almost anyone in the world.   He's got 100x more invested in it than any of us.  He comments on our games FAR differently than others because he's emotionally invested.   Some folks need to grow much thicker skins.  These aren't true "kids" he's criticizing.  They're young men; and many are coddled, self-centered, entitled brats.  When he says "Blackmon couldn't guard a chair," that's a coach talking to a kid trying to motivate him.  And you know what?  Blackmon's defense is awful.  So is Ferrell's, and he pointed that out, too.  Calling him an "old man bashing college kids" is just laughable.  He has a college aged kid, and he ain't that old.  He and every "old man" who's still of working age, a partcipating parent, and active in life has every right in the world to be critical because they have wisdom, knowledge, and recent experience.  It would do some young people very well to listen and stop labeling people as "old" if they happen to be older than you are.  Get rid of the ego and get over whatever offended you.  "Old men" are frequently absolutely right.  And you will be, too.  I've learned a lot from "old men," and I'm smart enough to seek them out.  Dakich is one - if I were a college player - I'd listen to.  Leaving whatever you think his ego is out of it, the man gets it, and he's absolutely right FAR more often than he's wrong.     When he says someone quit on a play....he's right.  They did.  And Indiana fans (and former players, alums, etc) know it's complete crap to play that way.   When he comments about Indiana trying to trick people...he's right.   They do.  Crean does.  And they're horrible at it.  It hurts them.   He cares.    He IS bitter about IU, and not just because he didn't get the job.  He's said many of the same things I have over the years.  The focus has come off of what made Indiana great while he was there as a player and a coach, and he's sad to see it go downhill the way it has.  I would be too.  He's commented many times on Indiana's recruiting budget, and he questions, like I do, why Crean doesn't spend 90% of his time within 200 miles of Bloomington.  He wonders why Indiana needs to spend $700,000 on recruiting which is twice more than ANY other Big Ten team, and 10x more than Wisconsin!   And you know what?  Those are legitimate, fair, reasonable points.  He knows it doesn't have to be that way, and he has said frequently it has netted Indiana next to nothing while bringing in a few kids who tarnished the program and Crean with it.  Meanwhile, in West Lafayette.....   He understands WHY Indiana Basketball is what it is and was a big part of it getting to that point.  Anyone begrudges him for being a little bitter, go talk to Brian Evans, Kent Benson, Scott May, Tom Abernathy, Jim Thomas, Steve Eyl, Joe Hillman about it.  They're bitter, too.  They just don't have a radio show.     Dakich isn't full of himself.  Dakich gives a damn.  And I love him for it.   Yes, he's old school; but think about who his mentor was.  He also has a dad who he frequently praises for being tough on him.  Good for Dad.  Good for Dan.  The world needs more tough love.  We have enough "soft."

32 horrible, lazy, effortless, selfish, gutless, dead, ineffective, brainless, miserable to watch minutes followed by 8 very solid ones that probably saved this and other boards from exploding with Crean bashing.  Dakich keeps saying "Indiana does this stupid thing, trying to trick people" because he can't just come out and say "Crean's an idiot."   But I do wish we'd stop trying to out think the room.  He was also right...Indiana tends to give up on plays.  Their defense is generally awful on a level never before seen at Indiana. (at least in my lifetime) He's also right that a lot of kids act like they have no idea why it's important to wear "INDIANA" on their jerseys.   Nice to get a win, but we're not a good team.  We'll end up with 20+ wins and make the NCAA tournament, but I don't know that I expect many more really quality wins.  Brey said he thinks ND is now the best program in the state; and I'm pretty confident he won't win in this series for a few more years.  Maybe he'll shut up?  Who knows.  Good win for Indiana....  Yogi Ferrell still isn't a leader.  And Blackmon couldn't guard a chair.   Edit :  If I were Bryant, I wouldn't like Yogi, either.

If Stevens were to come back to college and Indiana let it be anywhere other than Bloomington, every single employee in the athletic office and president's office should be fired immediately.  Indiana men's basketball is, like it or not, by far the University's most visible entity.  Stevens is the only answer until he says he isn't, and money cannot be the reason he doesn't come; we can't let facilities, resources, or anything else be the reason.  Indiana needs to make itself a job he can't refuse if indeed he will come back to college.

I know.  Wasn't aiming that at you.  Just making a general comment.

Whatever Mark Cuban thinks or doesn't think, if anyone believed he was going to come anywhere near airing dirty laundry or say something negative while he was in town, I think you were expecting something that never had a chance.    I promise neither he, nor Cindy Simon-Skjodt, nor any other influencial wealthy alum who cares about basketball feel any differently than we do.  But they're not going to come out and say anything publicly.   Nothing to gain.  Lots to lose.  Whatever conversations they have will be in private, and none of us will ever know.  

What a pathetic expose' on the state of Indiana Basketball.   It is truly disgusting that thought process and line of thinking even comes up.  Crean should be absolutely embarrassed.

I'm not sure how anyone can do anything but stand, clap and wish him well.  Regardless of timing, this is a guy who always got the most from his teams, and did it in such a way I think most Indiana fans over the age of 35 can identify with.   Congratulations and best wishes to one hell of a coach.

I liked your post and agree with some of this.  But I think many over-estimate his impact and efficacy.  Since he's been put in a leadership role, his teams are 44-29 overall, 16-20 in the Big Ten, have finished 8th and 7th in the conference, have struggled almost all the time against good teams, and have zero post season wins in one appearance.  This with very talented players around him.  Maybe not enough, and maybe not dominant, but certainly better than the record he's amassed.  Many teams have done far more with less.     Yogi is not a strong leader, and I think that's about universal.  He's sometimes selfish and he needs the ball.  I'm not sure I think many people believe he makes players around him better (results don't say so), he's a career 42-43% shooter, but still takes way more shots than anyone else save Blackmon this season. (he took twice as many as anyone else in 2013-2014, and his numbers were still ~ 42%.  That hurt the team in my mind)   He certainly has his strengths, and his assist numbers are way up this year, which is good.  I think he plays with too much freedom, and I blame both he and Crean for that.      I completely agree with your last sentence.  I also think with a better coach and an offense that's more efficient and less reliant on the dribble, along with a better, more physical defender at that position will make Indiana a better "team" when he's gone, too.  This season has a lot of basketball left, and our Big Ten schedule is very easy comparatively.  He's got a chance to make me change my mind, however he has to improve some things, too.  I like Yogi and I'm glad he's at Indiana, but I can't say I'll think of him as any kind of all time great.  He just hasn't won enough....

It will look slower and likely more controlled.  Yogi is very talented, but tends to play too fast.  He plays to HIS speed most of the time, and not always to that of his team mates, so he makes passes that are the right idea, but not always the most efficient.  I like a point guard who understands how to run his team and tries to get the ball to the right people in the right places at the right time.  Yogi - to me - seems to simply try making plays, no matter who the recipient is or where he is.  Yogi is a very talented player with the ball in his hands.   I'll just stop there.

I don't think anyone believes Gelon will be a stud.  Just want to make sure in my post above someone doesn't say I compared Blueitt to Gelon.  You never know around here.

It's hard and sometimes impossible to tell what a high school player will do on a college team if he's not dominating the ball on one end or a difference making defender on the other.   Trevon Blueitt was never a kid who dominated the ball.  Yogi did it for a couple of years with him, and Bryce Moore did it his last 2 years.  One time, I saw a team cover and double him for 24 minutes, and he had 2 points through 3 quarters.  Ended up with 14 because the team had to change plans and press, etc to get back in the game, but it can happen even to kids who lead a Big East team in scoring as a sophomore.   At Indiana, Gelon is never going to be the main threat or someone an opponent will specifically game plan to take away.  That's not who he is.  He's also not the kind of player who can consistently create or get open for himself.  Again, not who he is.  Crean (or whoever his coach is) will have to use him in a way that allows him to succeed within his skill set; and he's a very good option to come off screens and shoot.  That's true regardless of how he performs when a high school team sets a game plan to take him away.  That won't be a problem in college, and if it is, he's far better than any of us thought he'd be.

Great question.  I actually thought about this before I answered it because you bring up some nice points.  I like Mack.  Just something about him I really like.  I can't explain it other to say I met him a couple of times, and was impressed.  I also like how his teams always seem to find the weaknesses in opponents and exploit them; and it seems they get a lot of good shots for the guys who should be taking them.  You know who else I like?  Chris Holtmann.  Which means I'd like Michael Lewis who has experience under both Stevens and Holtmann.  He's probably not ready for IU yet, but you get my point based on your "IU guy" comment.  Fife is and will always be interesting.  IPFW is a really hard job, so it's hard to say what he's really like as a head coach.  He's the son of a coach and has been around the game forever.  But....we've already gone down the "former assistant at Michigan State under Izzo" road, and I don't like the result.  Izzo's coaching tree isn't exactly impressive.  The "IU guy" list is getting smaller and smaller.  Michael Lewis may be, when it's all said and done, the one left when the timing's right.     I like the Millers.  I really do.  I think they're better than Crean because I think they're a little more structured, and when I hear them talk, it doesn't strike me that there's no plan, and I don't hear platitudes.  I like Sean because he has some roots in Indiana, and I think he's a little better coach than Archie is.  That's just an opinion based on a few games watching both.     You are my new favorite poster.  I hate the big heads.  I hate the piped in music.  I hate the manufactured enthusiasm.  That's not our DNA.  It's not our culture.  We're a pep band and tradition.  Just who we are.  Duke has their quirky traditions, Kansas has theirs, we had ours...and we lost them in favor of "modern."  I know what the very predictable arguments are against what I just said, but I don't agree with them.  You don't have to have every bell, whistle, and gimmick to "keep up" or to attract the kids of today.  That stance is simply not correct.  Fred Glass holds the candle there...he's a quirky, gimmicky guy.  Smart, but gimmicky.   His marketing vs. what Indiana's been built on don't always match up.  Assembly Hall is still one of the coolest places around, but purity has a place.  It breeds the kind of basketball and kind of success I think we all want to see.  It doesn't get more pure than Hinkle, and their game atmosphere is still pretty vanilla because of the building.  But it's classic.  I like "classic," and I think it still plays very well.   Uwe, Ray Harper is 54 years old.  Indiana doesn't need that.  We need a young, tough, smart up and comer.  Good coach...not sure I think it's the right fit.

Disagree.  Marshall has run a 2-2-1 press that he calls "pulley" for most of his career.  It's tough to play against unless you have elite athletes and ball handlers....which he'd see every day in the Big Ten.   He'd still beat Alcorn State, though.  He's also run it back to a match up zone most of the time.  That's a little gimmicky for me.  Dis-service or not, he's a system guy.  To me, he'd be only marginally better than Shaka Smart as a hire.  He did just fine at Winthrop, and when he had great talent (which he gets all the credit in the world for recruiting to Wichita State), he's done just fine in the Valley; but that's where he belongs.  He's 52 years old, and he's never even been at an assistant at a large school.   He just strikes me as a very good mid-major coach.   Not a guy I think will have a long, successful career in the Big Ten.

Marshall is not a home run hire.  Marshall is basically a system coach who had superior talent for a while and made a name for himself.   Which sounds awfully familiar.  They're 4-4 this season in case anybody's looking, and their current RPI is 81. (They did beat UNLV, though....hhmmmmmm)    I'm not sure how I feel about Archie Miller.  Maybe.   The bottom line is simply that the solution is a one man list.  Talking about anyone else is a "settle" unless he says there's no way he's coming any time soon.  If Brad Stevens says he's not coming, we do significant diligence to find the next great coach, and it's not going to be somebody obvious.  Crean was a name who'd had some success and was in a smaller conference at a smaller school, so psychology says a move up for him is a good hire and a win for everybody.   We're finding that to be false, so that tells me our next hire is not going to be and should not be what amounts to a repeat of the last one. If Stevens says no...not coming.  The next few names I'd like to see (and I haven't done enough homework on any of them, but like the idea of :   Sean Miller (I guess he'd be my "obvious" pick if not Stevens) Archie Miller (maybe) Bryce Drew - Indiana kid, son of a really good coach, and a great personality.  Has won his conference 3 of 4 seasons, and won 75% of conference games Chris Mack - think he's an up and comer.  Just my opinion, but he's recruited well locally If we need a bridge to Stevens?  Bob McKillop.   All I want for Christmas is.......

All due respect, what a coach does in the NBA is not relevant at all to what he can do in college.   But....he did an incredible job last season, most in the business consider him a defensive genius and the best young coach in basketball.....without a close 2nd place.   The NBA is all about players.  In college, coaches can make a MUCH bigger difference and affect teams/games/programs far more than they can in the NBA.  Do we think Luke Walton is a great basketball coach??   Seriously?

I think you speak for a lot of people when you say you're tired of it.  I still want to know whether or not the administration cares if Indiana is a nationally relevant and consistently winning basketball program.  I would find it very sad if not.....but this season looks very familiar, and coaches at other high profile programs in many sports are fired for far less than what Crean's put IU fans through.   I said a couple of weeks ago I'm done pounding on HIM.  But he has brought a ton of this on himself.  Indiana is a unique, special place.  You cannot succeed with this fan base by BS-ing them.  You cannot bring "the wrong kids" into this program, not win with them, and then expect sympathy.  The formula is too engrained.  I'm tired of hearing how much things have changed.   All that's changed is the access to kids and some of the influence of shoe companies and AAU coaches.  Indiana has proven it can still get top talent, so now we need to be picky.  I've heard Indiana players have high basketball IQ.  They're leaders.  They understand what it means to wear the jersey.  They move.  They guard.  They compete all the time.  They take smart shots.  They value the ball.   Right now?  That sounds more like Purdue and Wisconsin than Indiana.   And it makes me very sad.  I've heard "it can't happen anymore," and it always comes back to "Bob Knight's not coming back."  No, he's not.  But look at what's happening in West Lafayette and Madison, and tell me "it can't happen anymore."   Bull crap.   The entity is not going to be high profile or elite much longer.  Indiana basketball has a brand.  We are either going to choose to uphold it, or this is the kind of basketball and kind of season we can all get used to.  Sigh.

Looking solely at the box score from the perspective of someone who's not convinced we're very good..., and I didn't see one second of the game, so that's all I have :   Hey...at least we're beating most of the teams we're supposed to beat!    :scratchhead:   17 turnovers against IPFW??     That's awful.  Flat assed awful.  Especially when we STILL have more TO's than assists and have assists on < half our FG's.   Thomas Bryant cannot do that.   He cannot score 4 points with 2 rebounds and have 4 turnovers.  Ever.  But especially against..IPFW  There were people talking NBA for this kid pretty soon.  Um....no.   Blackmon needs to use games like this to build confidence and develop some leadership skills.  4 points ain't good enough.   Williams is still maddeningly inconsistent, and gauging what I heard on the radio, still out of control.  But...19 boards?  Holy crap!  Nice!   No shots for Zeisloft?  Can't happen.   Nice game by Yogi, but if one player has to provide more than 1/3rd of our offensive output in any single game....that's not good.   Harrison Niego out-rebounded James Blackmon and equaled Thomas Bryant.   That.  Can't.  Happen.   Sigh.....   Oh well.  A win is a win is a win.

Tell me that did not happen.   Please tell me that did not happen.   Did he also say we're undefeated with Christie Brinkley in the building?  Did he mention we're overall a "plus" when Priller's on the floor?   Did he buy some special after shave because the salesman said it keeps bears away?  After all, nobody wearing it has ever been attacked by a bear!    There are political ads that use better logic than this.  Please tell me you're making that up, and he didn't really say that.

PG - Isiah Thomas SG - Steve Alford SF - Calbert Cheaney PF - Scott May C -   Kent Benson   Bench   Buckner Woodson Haston Gordon Edwards Henderson Zeller Oladipo   Leaving OFF :   G Graham Hulls Guyton Wilkerson Abernathy Tolbert Turner Kitchell Wittman Bailey Jeffries Fife  White Garrett Smart D. Thomas   Holy cow...I'll take my rejects against most Big Ten schools.

I didn't know he was having it scoped....  Which is why I asked.  Haven't followed it that closely.