Hoosierfan2017

Woodson 100% gives off that vibe. He has an unearned arrogance when it comes to college coaching. You see it in his interactions with the media. It’s all “I’m Mike Woodson and you’re not. I know what I’m doing.”

25+ wins. Sweet 16 or better. Multiple top 60 recruits committed by the end of the season. And, most importantly, I total overhaul of his play style. I cannot deal with the ugly *** style that his teams play. Even the wins feel like total grinds the vast majority of the time. Give us something aesthetically pleasing (and that kids will actually want to play in).

IU basketball will never be a serious program again. Hiring Woodson in the first place was sign #1. Keeping him for a fourth year after a disastrous year 3 is sign #2. The administration wants your money for tickets and gear but has no interest in giving you a program worth watching. They don’t think they need to.

Right there with ya. If utter disaster is what it takes to make Dolson do the correct thing, then utter disaster is what needs to happen. I don’t want another year of taking 30 long 2s a game and endless talks of getting over the hump.

Down years at IU should look like Woody’s past two seasons. For all the talk about him snapping the long streak missing the tournament, Archie would’ve made it in 2020 sans a once in a century global pandemic. So, it was a long streak in name only. The appetite for rebuilding is almost nonexistent for IU fans. We sat through the first three Crean years. We sat through four years of Archie. We’ve sat through three years of Woody. People are tired of it. That’s why IU better hire a proven winner with this next hire. The fanbase isn’t interested in another 3-4 year rebuild. It seems like we’ve been rebuilding for 15 years with a few good years sprinkled in.

1) I think we’ll get someone better, but not someone good enough 2) not a chance

No one is using it as a negative for Dusty May. Some of us just aren’t as impressed with it as others. He’s had two good seasons. His first four years weren’t great at all. Six years is all we have to judge him on. Schertz won his conference 9 times during an 11 year span, and finished 2nd and 3rd in the other 2 years. Won 83% of his games and 84.6% of his conference games. Sure it was in D2, but that much winning is pretty impressive where it’s at in college basketball. He went 23-13 and 13-7 in his conference in year 2 at ISU, and he’s 22-3 in year 3. And he’s doing it at a school with five tournament appearances in school history, so not at a school with a rich tradition (similar to Dusty at FAU). I don’t want IU to hire either guy. But one guy has a much longer history of success at the level he’s coached at than the other guy. I don’t see a whole lot of comparisons beyond both being mid major guys. I think I’d rather deal with another year of Woody ball than hire Dusty May after this season.

Sure, those are good examples. Archie Miller is an example in the opposite direction. Musselman and Oats have proven they can do it at the power conference level now, and I’d love if IU could land one of them. I would prefer for Dusty May to go somewhere else first and prove it a la Muss/Oats. If IU is really his dream job then we could still have a good chance at landing him 2-3 years from.

Math of these guys moved 35-40+ years ago. Some moved before my parents were born. And for any guy on this list you could fine 10+ mid major guys who didn’t work out. I’ve never said that Dusty May can’t or won’t win at IU. I can’t predict the future. I just view him as a big risk, and I view the IU program as being on life support. You don’t get unlimited chances to make the right hire. At some point you’ll kill the program. I think IU is close to that stage. So, I want IU to go out and get the surest thing it can get. That’s not Dusty May for me. If he hadn’t been an IU manager back in the day I don’t think the support for him would be nearly as strong.

I mean, Duke got lucky too. How many mid-major turn into a Bob Knight or a Mike Krzyzewski, and how many don’t succeed at the major level? Those two are at the very high end of the exception. I doubt even the most optimistic of people ever imagined you’d get 18 final fours and 8 titles out of two coaches from Army. You’ll have to incentivize a good coach to leave their power conference job to come to IU. Throw around the kind of money IU allegedly offered Brad Stevens and your chances probably get a lot better.

In those four years he went 66-56 overall and 34-32 in his conference. Not mediocre in the context of the school’s history, but not great overall. To answer ISP’s question, I don’t know that there’s a particular point in this year’s tournament that May could reach to get me on board after this season. My position on May isn’t that he can’t work out. It’s just that he’s a fairly big risk, imo. I think he would still be a risk even if he makes another deep tournament run this year. IU basketball is in dangerous territory right now, so I don’t think we’re in a position to take such a risk.

IU hired a mid major coach who happened to become literally one of the two or three best coaches in modern college basketball history. It was a stroke of luck, honestly. Anyway, Bob Knight coached at Army when college basketball was entirely different. 22 teams made the tournament his first year, and they were only up to 25 in his last season. He won 67% of his games and had fourth place, fourth place, and third place finishes in the NIT back when it meant something. Dusty May has had two good seasons. The other four were all very mediocre. I don’t want IU to take the risk at a time where we really aren’t in a position to take such a risk.

I would add Nate Oats as well.l, though he’s probably on the dream list rather than the realistic list. I really like how his teams play.

An excellent hire to me is someone with proven, consistent success at the major conference level. We’ve hired 5 coaches since Bob Knight. One of them meets that criteria, and he was easily the best coach we’ve had post-Knight. I don’t think that that was a coincidence. Mike Davis - zero college head coaching experience Kelvin Sampson - 10 years at Oklahoma, 9 tournament appearances, three sweet 16s, two elite eights, and one final four Tom Crean - 5 tournament appearances in 9 seasons at Marquette, one final four (courtesy of D Wade). Only made it past the round of 64 one other time when he lost in the round of 32 Archie Miller - some good, consistent success, but at the mid-major level Mine Woodson - no college head coaching experience. Past results don’t always equal future success. However, I would feel much more comfortable hiring a guy who has shown he can perform well at this level. We’ve seen many coaches be flashes in the pan. We’ve seen many coaches have a good 2-3 year run and then fail to replicate it. It’s a lot harder to build a consistent program. If you can build a consistent program at a power conference school? Well, then I like your chances of doing it at IU too. Dusty May has had two good seasons at FAU. We can talk about how FAU has a bad basketball history, how he did better than his predecessor, etc., but at the end of the day he went 17-16, 17-15, 13-10, and 19-15 in his first four seasons. At this point in his career he doesn’t have consistent success at any level of college basketball, let alone the major level. That’s not to say he can’t or won’t, he just hasn’t at this stage in his career, and we can only evaluate him based on what he’s done to date. Who’s my guy? I have my wishlist, many of whom probably aren’t realistic. Mick Cronin is one guy I would feel comfortable with.

I simply don’t believe it for a second. And if it is true, it was entirely self-inflicted by IU. If they were only offering the $3.2 million that they offered Woodson, or something close to it? Sure, then I believe Woodson was the best IU could get. Why come to IU when you can make similar money elsewhere? But that goes to the problem of IU not being serious about winning. Offer north of $6 million and you’ll see your applicant pool look a bit different.

Dusty May would be a very underwhelming hire.

I don’t agree with it, but I do appreciate the well-thought out post here.

I like the Mick Cronin idea. Midwest guy. All his coaching experience pre-UCLA was in the Midwest. Made the final four and two other sweet 16 appearances at UCLA. Made the NCAA tournament each of his last 9 seasons at Cincinnati. No scandals. The UCLA athletic department is in really rough shape. Only 52 years old When I get past the home run hires I’d love for IU to get (and also realize IU won’t get), he seems like what I’d call an IU home run.

$538k in 2021. Not bad for a guy whose top 2 programs either (a) won zero conference games or (b) got steamrolled in the round of 64 that year.

Solutions have to actually make sense to be solutions. This is just “hey we can still be friends” after a breakup. It’s awkward for everybody. What’s the sell to the next coach? Hey by the way, the crappy coach we just fired is going to be your advisor, he’s got a direct line to you whenever he wants. Plus, Woody doesn’t really put effort into doing the job he already has. Seems unlikely he’ll take a $6 million haircut in exchange for another job/role. Just use some of that “most profitable athletic program” money and fire him.

Why would we want Woodson in an advisor role? Not sure I’d want him advising on 2024 basketball given what he’s shown over the past 3 years.

Lmao. Those darn out of state students and their *checks notes* IU fandom.

I disagree completely. Does anyone disagree with the take that Pitino and Calipari were bad nba coaches? They probably wouldn’t disagree with it themselves. But they were lifelong college guys who tried the nba. Woodson is the reverse of that. Assuming arguendo that winning 46% of his games doesn’t make Woodson a bad nba coach, the fact no nba team offered him a head coaching job after 2014 is pretty strong evidence of what nba teams thought of him. Especially with the way the nba recycles coaches. If you’re hiring a 63 year old with no college experience to be your head coach, you probably want to find a guy who was successful at the level he coached at. That wasn’t Mike Woodson, and his IU results speak to that.

I simply don’t believe that anyone who doesn’t have a vested interest in Woodson sticking around believes he’s the right guy. He’s failing at every facet of the job.

Cupps, Banks, Walker, Sparks , Gunn (you’ll argue he was an Archie guy, but Woodson chose to keep his commitment). That’s 5 of our 12 scholarship guys. None of them have been any good. He brought in MM who has been a big disappointment for a top ten 5 star player. There’s half your roster. He’s been able to land several 5 star recruits that top programs also wanted. That doesn’t make his “eye for talent” just fine. Kudos to him for landing those players, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to identify those guys as good players. We’ve seen his “eye for talent” in how he’s built the complimentary pieces.