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If these guys cannot contribute more than Max did this year a redshirt makes a lot of sense. We also have a chance now to play Troy at the three with only 2 guards and two bigs down low (considering HP, DD, TB and EH bigs). That would put rojo, CH and NZ as interchangeable guards and wings.

I think the idea behind getting an education is the notion that this will lead to him having a better life than those who did not get out. That is certainly true but if has the talent to be one and done that too is a means to enjoy a better life, perhaps much better than the education route.

That was why I picked him. Both have extenuating circumstances.

Did you really mean every year at every program? Not sure it is that common. We invited Todd Leary to get Montross (oops), Etherington helped get Cody and Jurkin may have helped with HP

That has been included in this discussion.

How would the sales pitch change? Luke came in ranked in the 90's and had been hurt for much of the non BT season. He had just started to play and had 1 good game before he transfers. Do you think that the idea that Luke would be here next year would scare off that many prospects? I get that Luke had not been able to demonstrate his capabilities but that is my point. If you switch to Noah, then I would argue that him playing the 5 was him playing out of position. Had he came back he would have been a strong stretch 4 and would have created a need for a center anyway.

There are more wings which is why I don't understand the need to over recruit for them. Bigs are harder to come by so that should be prioritized. Our problem is compounded by our inability to develop bigs. You need to come in as a McD big to really be a force here. If we could develop bigs then it would expand our pool of available bigs to recruit.

The problems I have with this still point back to recruiting strategy. Luke left mid year and Crean admitted to not being surprised by this. For a guy that over recruits every year, as soon as you suspect Luke may leave then go big man shopping. Noah was on the lottery boards nearly all season. Even if Noah said he was coming back, Crean should have anticipated the pull might be too strong and that he might go. Again since over recruiting is the standard go out and get a replacement. Especially combined with Luke leaving. Lastly you point out how hard it is to bring in a big. I agree so he should be over recruiting with bigs not wings annually. Not lowly ranked bigs until we have a staff that can develop but kids that can play soon.

Except we do not compare at all defensively. When Duke had Okafer out with fouls and got down they responded by amping up their D. Wisconsin has always been very good on D. We may have better offense but this needs to be the summer we spend getting much better on D

I agree. For those that will respond that Remy partied too much I understand but the fact remains that we have struggled recently without veteran leadership.

Dakich who was coaching his sons AAU team during that time mentioned he thought that class had some issues. I remember him saying this well before they hit campus and wondered who he meant. You are going to miss from time to time but with in state kids you should have a leg up due to relationships with HS and AAU coaches. The red flags were there with Hollowell (we debated whether his motor would be enough here). Ron's changing of AAU teams and HS grades were also discussed and Jurkins injuries began around his sophomore year in HS. Creans was recruiting at a high level at this point (Blackman, Lyles, Hartman and DD had committed prior to the movement) and had a team on the rise. He could have been more selective than he was. I do get that all programs have kids that miss and you cannot hit all the time. A lot of people like to credit Crean for finding diamonds in the rough and developing kids as well as bringing in high level kids. He is often credited for being an excellent recruiter and yet there are a lot of misses like what we saw in the 2012 class. I have been saying the same thing however about how the 2012 class really set us back. That combined with Roth, Creek, Remy and Fisher leaving also hurt. No doubt the first three in that list may not have been all BT level guys but we have also struggled mightily because we have not had veteran leaders on the team since Hulls, CWat and Elston left. When you are winning like we were early in the 2012-13 season Crean deserved (and received) a lot of credit. When you can't sustain that success he is rightly getting proper criticism. Neither were fully his doing but he is charged with putting a consistent winner on the floor capable of competing for the BT title every year in the same way OSU, MSU and Wisconsin does. We you don't do that the criticism increases. Izzo, Matta and Bo can have a drop off year now and then (though they do not drop as far as we have) because they have earned street credit. Crean has not. In fact, Crean carries the "baggage" of complaints Marquette posters warned us about. I too get tired of the constant criticism for Crean but equally tire of those that like to throw out praise like he is a great recruiter, he is great at finding diamonds in the rough and developing players. I don't care if you want to use the Wisconsin model (recruit locally and develop kids over their career) or the Duke model (recruit nationally and compete with a young roster). We just have to do a better job of being cons item and when good we have to do a better job than getting to the sweet sixteen. When you don't win consistently and when your teams constantly fade down the stretch (I went and looked at his teams over his career and two have performed better at the end if the year) criticisms will follow.

Were you there? I thought the crowd was heavily in favor of Wisconsin but wondered what you thought

If he cannot play next year you still honor the scholarship ala Austin Hatch at UM. They honored his scholly well before they knew if he would ever play again.

Loved Will as a role player but would quickly trade a third of his points for crafty senior leadership. I also am not sure I agree that he had bball IQ but I usually associate that with on and off court leadership so that might be why I discount that. I prefer Indiana kids but could live with others is they lead us to consistent high level winning. We are getting neither

I wonder if us $100 donors can sponsor one of the exit doors.

Dakich said basically the same thing about his son. As a walk on he could choose from a few programs but he chose against IU as much as he chose Michigan.

Well get ready for the circular arguments. First it will be those rankings don't really mean much. Then it will be that Crean is a great evaluator of talent. Then it might be something about being a great developer of talent. Then maybe, he had some guys that were bad for the chemistry and now that they transferred and the recruits we have coming will lead to a great, great year next year. All those things may be true but you hit on the essence of the problem. Crean is not performing at the same level as his peers.

Prohm may be the better candidate.

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Three more years - wow?

I agree and have been trying the SE approach recently. The problem I have with this is IF Crean has a modicum of success next year he remains Glass's guy. Even if that success is below ours. Patience can project as being pleased with the current state of things further encouraging Glass to stay the course.

Never been good with tea, coffee sure, but not tea. What did you deduce from these moves? Any of these? 1) Stevens is definitely coming so all the other options took their next best option. 2) Stevens might come next year and if so we would probably talk to Marshall and Jacobson too?

He was only in contention 1 out of 4 years. That did not meet your standard of being in contention every year.

Your qualifications listed above about contending for a BT championship regularly yet since the rebuild he has done this once in four years. Then you look at his broader experience over his career and notice that Marshal, for example, has been far more successful competing for championships in his conference.

Go look back at his Marquette days the results are the same. The DWade year was the exception. Otherwise his teams performed poorly down the stretch.