MartintheMopMan

"Just once I'd like to see an Indiana player make a three and act like he's done it before."   Wow

I don't even think about Illinois. Are they still a team?

And I can see someone being scapegoated, my biggest issue with this theory is just that I work with this kind of thing all the time in an employment setting. The one thing I cannot stress to employers enough is never to punish someone for the transgressions of others without dealing the punishment out in accordance with their acts. All you're doing is drawing attention to the employees you're trying to protect.   No one who was upset at Urban was mollified by the dismissal of Gardner and no one who was willing to look the other way for the other players cared what Gardner did. He plays for us and how many of us even remembered it? I literally only remembered because Urban dismissed him and not the other three and I follow OSU football pretty closely. I would have never thought of him again if Urban just put him back onto the bench.

No one ever said he didn't play at Milford. I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year before he committed to Indiana. So, you're playing chess against an empty board because you have no opponent on whether he played at Milford.   I don't know about CKW's standards or even his ability to judge character with Allen, Green, or Griffith. And the institution isn't put at risk by bringing in kids with bad backgrounds, just the prestige, honor, and respect of the program. Since, our football program is widely considered to have none of those things, people just ignore the problems. I bet you could ask a dozen people in the Hall tonight their feelings on Antonio Allen and get fewer than half who even know who he is.   And just so we're clear, I'm saying he doesn't meet the standards I would like the program to have because he was arrested fewer than 6 months prior to his signing with us. If Alkins is arrested tomorrow and other schools back off, I don't want him either. If Lagow had been arrested in July, I would not want us recruiting him either. His being kicked out of OSU is circumstantial evidence showing the seriousness of the offense, it is not itself the issue.       Cool. That wouldn't be at all relevant though, unless someone said there was a year between when you were in trouble and when you joined the team. They'd still be wrong.   I'm not surprised by the attitudes people have about this, just disappointed. It disappoints me to see people who get so fired up over the smallest possible slight to the basketball program (our strength coach stood up!) be so blase toward the recruitment of players who were recently arrested just because it's football. I know there is always the urge to justify adding someone with recent troubles to the team by saying they weren't really so bad and deserve a second chance, but I'm surprised to see the "well we just don't know" justification for someone who also used up their second chance (this year's suspension) and barely even sees the field.   I think I've made my feelings clear, even with all the possible justifications, it bugs me to swoop in on a player who was just arrested. Especially if you're just going to have him on the bench for a few years. It screams of desperation and that's not what I want Indiana football to stand for, it's not what I want any Indiana program to stand for, not our baseball team or basketball or water polo. I'm all for second chances and I would feel differently about a remote past (if he really had a year between arrest and committing even), but "oh hey, this player was just kicked off OSU let's give him a call" is gross to me. You're welcome to disagree.

And all I'm saying is if we want to have a football program held to the same standard as our other programs, we can't be second-chance university. If we have to reassure ourselves that the recruit only made a mistake (5 months earlier) and totally learned his lesson, then maybe we should at least do it with someone who is going to start.   And that Tim's on his third chance not second (arrest then suspension). 

Yeah, and if the kids getting DWIs and DUIs get to stay on the team, what does that say about Tim's charge? Granted, we have kids with the same on our team and did on our basketball team. You say his charge wasn't as serious, but obstruction can be a huge charge or a pretty minor charge. In Ohio, he could have told the police he was over 21 at a party or he could have been asked to stop and fled or affirmatively intervened into another case and misled the police. We have no idea exactly what he did, but we do know he was kicked off the team while people who were charged with assault weren't. That's all we have to indicate the charge. Since you have insider information I would love to hear the whole story.   And, I said he didn't attend a prep school for a year between his arrest and commitment. Do you have other information? Because if he was arrested in July 2013 and signed in December 2013 (and enrolled in January 2014) then I'm not seeing how he could have spent a year at Milford between July 2013 and December 2013. So... check mate I guess? Are we saying checkmate now?   Does Yogi have a second offense after he was arrested? I believe my standard is "don't recruit kids who were just kicked off other teams for an arrest and if you get arrested, but stay on the team, don't blow your second chance". Yogi is still not blowing his second chance as far as I know. Do you think Stan should have been kicked off the team after his arrest and suspension?   This is just now being brought up because C&C asked whatever happened to him.

I knew I was taking it off the rails in the other thread and didn't want our celebratory thread about Dan staying to turn into another "our standards are too low" crank fest (even when I'm the crank).

1. And in my initial comment I said "if we're committed to building a football tradition in line with our school's values" which means I expect the football players to be at the same level as the basketball players. As for repeated offenses, well, like I said, an arrest and then a suspension.   2. Read it how you will, I can't change what you infer from my statements. But, he did get in trouble too much for OSU, whether that's the single incident or anything else, it was too much. If we're just making up reasons for things like in number 3, then maybe he already did something wrong to justify being the only one already kicked off the team and it was never publicized.   3. So, as long as we can make up reasons for why the kids were suspended, we can just decide it's the lowest offense possible? That's convenient. No wonder the programs try and keep the reasons for suspensions secret. Everyone was so angry when it came out they were going to punish those failed drug tests internally, but why wouldn't they if they get such a massive benefit of the doubt? Smoking pot isn't serious enough for arrest, but as soon as that was leaked for Stan and Troy's suspensions there were calls to kick them off the team.   Also, he did not attend a year at a prep school. He was kicked off OSU in July 2013, committed to Indiana in December 2013, enrolled in January 2014. So, there were only 5 months between his arrest and his commitment, not a year.   Giving him a chance could be fine only because obstruction is such a varied charge. The staff knows what he did exactly and they're better able to judge whether he meets the standards of the university. Ohio State didn't think so, but maybe it really is a conspiracy against him and he's just the fall-guy for Hyde and Roby. Without releasing details about the charge (which you'd think you'd do if it were minor right?) then we look desperate and willing to compromise our values by recruiting a player who was already removed from another team after an arrest.   Then later by getting suspended, he showed he hasn't matured and should not still be on the team. Green and Griffith absolutely should have been kicked off the team on their second infraction. Latham did not have a previous arrest that I'm aware of. If Latham had been arrested before being suspended, I wouldn't want him around either. If Latham were arrested after being suspended, I'd want him gone.   As far as I'm concerned, if that's the standard for student athletes at IU, then it should be the standard across the board. Once you get arrested, you're on your last strike. Otherwise, why should we pretend to care when basketball players get in trouble but shrug it off when football players do? If Lamar Stevens is arrested this summer and kicked off PSU's basketball team before the season starts, do you want us to pick our recruitment of him back up? I mean, maybe he's matured.

Tell me honestly, if he played for the basketball team, would you defend him and say "we all make mistakes"?   And why does whether he played or not matter? Does it change what he did? Why didn't Baugh get used as an example? His incident was the same time.   He literally got in trouble and OSU dismissed him because he got in trouble. That's too much trouble for OSU.   Edit: Oh, and a google search to see if the charges were dropped immediately reminded me that Tim was also part of the group of 9 players suspended this year at the start of the season. But, at least he learned his lesson right?   http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2015/09/05/nine-iu-players-suspended-football-season-opener/71780596/

Bump-Bump-Bumpadelphia!

The key with Urban really is that you can't do bad things and not be a star. That's why all his other players get away with things. Anyway, he got arrested for obstruction of police business right after the Bradley Roby incident and was immediately dismissed from the team while Roby and Baugh were not (nor was Hyde, that was the same weekend as his assault charges).   Never came to light what exactly he did. Obstruction can be a total crap charge or it can be wicked serious. I'm inclined to believe it was serious because Urban took a ton of heat for dismissing him and allowing everyone else to stay and you don't set yourself up for that if you aren't sure.

Ugh. Tim Gardner. A kid who got in trouble too much for OSU and got kicked off the team who we weren't too proud to scoop up so that he can sit on the bench behind Camiel. You don't remember his name because he only got a couple snaps a game.   If we're committed to building a football tradition in line with our school's values, we can't have any more Tim Gardners. 

The key is booze pockets. Little sealed baggies of booze you carry in your pockets and add to the sodas in the bathroom. Classic student's trick for the Hall. The kid will love it.

NW is going to be such an interesting or terrible game...   Neither the northernmost nor westernmost in the Big Ten. Wait, actually there was something interesting about their founding I learned last year, what was it? Oh yeah, it was founded by a board of businessmen to serve the former Northwest territory. That's why the name is wrong. -76   Properly named after the current existing state - 80

I'm not saying they desperately want to be us but... Assembly Hall? Changing everything to @illinois.edu? Saying not saying. - 69 Accept no imitations except imitation crab sometimes because that stuff is really good - 81

Look at those turnover and steal matchups against NW's defense. Can a team totally unable to force turnovers even handle IU's brand of unforced turnover?

I know, it's way too early for a pregame thread with another game in the middle. So, just ignore this until you feel like using it ya' know?   I just can't believe we're playing Kanye West's kid.     Prediction League: https://btownbanners.com/topic/9059-prediction-league-game-20-week-11-iu-vs-northwestern-012316/   Pick'ems: https://btownbanners.com/topic/9099-iubb-pickems-game-20-vs-northwestern/#entry234888   Numbers (Pre-Illinois): [attachment=3238:5.PNG]

Refer back to OP for the numbers for the game (added prediction league link too).

And now he and Vonleh share minutes... What a country! But no, I wish he'd declare he is quitting basketball and I never had to see him Lemon up another play.

My boss is a huge Oregon State fan. Tomorrow will be interesting.

Can we get a "I don't think JBJ is very good" thread for all of this?

No worries. We also have a thread for this but it tends to end up buried sometimes. If a mod not on a phone and teaching Sunday School wants to combine them... https://btownbanners.com/index.php?/topic/6201-Hoosier-Transfers-and-recruiting-targets%2E

Bad media deal and this year not being a good team keeps them off TV. It's a huge complaint of people who move away from Portland, they're just impossible to watch. Gordon has been injured so much he's been hard to follow, also not being on a star team doesn't help.   I hate Meyer Lemon and would prefer Vonleh got his minutes. Vonleh has made a ton of progress since the beginning of the year and looks better every game, he still has so much potential. Next year when we have some better pieces he'll get a lot more attention.    His story should still be a warning to TB though, until this year he was in a bad position without much hope to escape without being traded to a team who had a big need for a big. He's doing great now that he has a shot, but he would have been better off staying another year at least and avoiding the whole thing.

Brutal brutal game but I didn't have to eat my words so can't beat that. After playing the actual worst team in the Big Ten the same way I should have know better. Glad to be 5-0! We're pretty much Iowa. Tanked our rating on kenpom. I think we dropped like 4 spots.

I am embarrassed already.