HoosierHoopster

I'd love to see run given to a Ren / JG front court. Ah the athleticism...

Fair, but Bates came in a borderline 5 star and an excellent shooter, he was largely held back this past season bc of his D, that limited his play, we’ll see

Ok I get all that and agree there’s often off-season talk and hype that’s overdone, and yeah the proof is in the pudding. Bates was an excellent shooter coming in though and a borderline 5 star, and he has shown flashes. Then there’s Woodson talking him up, and other players. And yeah we haven’t seen him in games yet this season but his stroke looked really good at HH. So, we’ll see

We’ve seen him shoot at HH, we’ve heard and read multiple reports about him including his shooting from the practices and scrimmages, no need to be snarky of course we haven’t seen it in games yet, I’m betting we will

I think you'll be ecstatic

Think you're referring to my comments -- no question that Bates came to IU as a three level scorer, that was all over the scouting reports and that's what he showed at the HS level, agree he didn't demonstrate that (consistently) as a frosh, but I'd bet on his showing it this season, he absolutely has three level scoring ability -- and we've already seen some of his outside shooting improvements to start this year -- he was a strong outside shooter coming to IU, he's found his range.

Agree with both of you -- we dug ourselves into holes in various games while always starting both PS and MK regardless of matchups, whether they were playing well or poorly, regardless of how well others played in preceding games or who was playing well together. I'm a big believer in Woodson and where we're headed and think we're going to shine this season, but I'm not a fan of just sitting back and supporting bad coaching decisions because it's Woodson/former IU guy etc., he's been adjusting to coaching college kids and he favors vets (which I understand and don't really fault) but he was adjusting/learning and starting and playing the MK/PS combo irrespective of anything was just not a good coaching decision. And finishing to me is at least as important as starting. The games ebb and flow and when we see adjustment and the guys finishing reflect who should be on the floor for O or D or to match up with the other guys or who are playing well together, etc., that tends to bring more W's. In any event, this roster has better fit, Kopp may score at a higher level (he needs to justify starting, imo) with the spacing, movement and much better all around play we can expect to see with JHS/X. He's a good set shot shooter, he can help open the floor if -- and it's an if -- he's getting and taking shots while the ball moves, inside out etc. Bates brings scoring at 3 levels, and JG brings much faster play and athleticism, high level rebounding and D (perimeter D his growth area) with shooting (I think we'll see his outside shooting grow into the 35% range) at big moments. And Gallo brings just about everything but demonstrated shooting. Now you add in Ren too? I'm pretty stoked for this season.

I’m very high on JG (along with Bates and Gallo). Seems somewhat clear to me from his recent interview that his role is going to be driven by rebounding, hustle plays and rim runs — nothing wrong with that if ohers are bringing it offensively, but he has way more potential than that, hoping to see that potential get more realized this season, take more shots, grow his perimeter D and show improved handle

They can differ depending on the coaches and what they want to test but it’s typical to have multiple play stoppages, coaches injecting teaching moments, lots of different lineups etc

Also agree and for the additional reason of taking steps to minimize chances for injuries. I suspect we'll see guys like Ren get a lot of run in these early games in any event, much like we saw Bates get a lot of run early last season, but imo Bates, JG and Gallo (full conditioning depending) need a lot of run as they will be the key guys off the bench going forward into the season (and one of them may work his way into the starting lineup).

Yeah secret scrimmages are for the coaches, lineup testing, teaching moments, stopped plays, etc. can't really assess a team on one

Yeah that's my concern. We have a pretty brutal stretch run to end of regular season. Illinois' schedule is definitely easier -- however, the Illini did just lose a player to injury. I think we finish 2nd or 3d, solely because of the schedule, and because we're not sneaking up on anyone. But I will be happy anywhere between 1 (ecstatic) and 3.

Wait are we getting back into that coffee discussion? Don't make me break out my percolator again!

Yeah I think that's probably right. I continue to hope to see Bates work his way into that starting lineup, as much as coach favors experience, and while Kopp remains probably the best outside shooter on set shots, Bates brings so much potential as a 3-level scorer and his outside shot has been looking like it's falling into shape -- his D is going to determine that, I imagine. Then there's JG and Ren both of whom bring the ability to dominate the glass and add much more athleticism and speed to the lineups. Going to be fun watching this play out.

I'll see if I can get my (5'2") mom to stand next to him someday...

I tend to think we're going to be really good whether or not he's in the rotation -- and we could have that shooting etc. from others -- but if with his athleticism and shooting ability he carves out some minutes, that will say a lot for him and his ability.

"If you were to compare him to players that have recently been on Indiana's roster, guys like OG Anunoby, Troy Williams, and Justin Smith come to mind with the only difference being that Banks may come in a little more finetuned than those players." Lol, one of these things is not like the other. Smith was never an outside shooter in any way, and never should've been played as a 'wing.' Troy developed it at the end. Regardless, those are some strong comparisons. And if he's more fine-tuned then OG, well, watch out.

Dakich is just a straight tool at this point. He self-destructed years ago.

Goes to TJD’s comment a while back, it’s mixing players for chemistry, and lineups that could see floor time during games, good to see

Interesting take on the team having a long way to go based on his watching the practices, juxtapositioned against his earlier comment that the inter-squad competition is excellent with starting B1G level players coming off the bench (Bates, Galloway and JG) and referencing Ren as an elite big. Sounds like he sees boatloads of talent but a work in progress and I think he's talking about the O. I've said it before but I like your prediction -- it's not bashing Kopp, he's a solid vet who has the ability to shoot well from deep, when he is actually taking the shots, but so far he hasn't scored well, he hasn't been taking many shots, the offense has been geared to pound it inside, and with what sounds like Bates' growth, I think it comes down to whether he and JG are strong enough defensively to take over more of that role -- Galloway maybe, but that would require him to make a monumental leap in his outside shooting.

Yeah, Galloway was 3rd in assists. He's not a point but he's certainly shown much more of role in implementing offense on ball than Bates. That said, I can certainly see Bates playing on ball at times as we're going to be starting X and JHS (by all accounts), and having Bates come in on ball is backup point play that we otherwise lack -- and would make sense to me to see Bates and Galloway together in the backcourt.

I see this problem -- the very low outside shooting numbers -- as a reflection of the offensive strategy, not lazy screens and cuts by players, or "urgency." The coaches dictate the offenses to be run, including how outside shooting is utilized. We went from a high-level outside shooting team under Crean (often with mediocre to poor D, though not always) to a team that simply did not use the perimeter under CAM, and virtually overnight. We shot by numbers at the bottom of the B1G. That's not laziness, it's strategy / offensive sets -- we went inside as much as possible with TJD and Race. We supposedly brought in outside shooters in Kopp and Stewart to grow our outside game, but almost nothing changed. We absolutely should see improvement in outside shooting -- not just percentages but in volume / how it's used -- this season. If we don't, something is wrong.

But why? Never mind though, it's all in the past....

Yeah I'm just unclear at this point on what the root cause of our low shooting was. Agree Stewart did not fit last year. On the other hand, Kopp took a really low number of shots, and last time I checked we shot on volume from outside comparable to what we shot under CAM, which goes directly against why we brought in outside shooters in the first place. I'm not meaning to critique Woodson/Staff's offense directly, we used the front court / TJD well and he's outstanding, but, yeah, why continue to start Stewart if he's having virtually no positive impact, and we can't be a one-dimensional team offensively and expect to run deep, and generally why bring in 3-point shooters to stand around and not shoot? I don't buy that we create spacing by the 'threat' of having them out there, when they barely shoot -- that's easy scouting. I do think having JHS this season, together with X, is going to make a real difference in how we use the perimeter, and inside-out play. If we don't, I would have a real problem with running a one-dimensional offense this year (but again don't expect it). Related, wing play should be better, though still not deep, I expect Bates is going make a significantly better impact, and with JHS, guys like Galloway and JG (who has already shown he can shoot from deep and I'd bank on seeing better outside shooting from him to go along with attacking the rim) I think are going to vamp up their impact as well.