HoosierHoopster

I’ve been saying there was never a doubt in my mind, he’s clearly a key player now for Woodson— But still, Hallelujah!!

I’m looking at it this way — We finished the year basically the best D in conference— allowed least points per possession, FG D was very good. So far we’re returning all of that except Phin, and JG’s D (already strong) will be better this season and with more minutes We’re adding as of now the #5 ranked (247) incoming class including Ren who’s excellent defensively). The team right now has good chemistry and defense is not a weakness, it’s a strength. Imo we do not need Dennis. I’m for development, guys develop, on both sides of the ball. I go back to remembering people calling for Wat to transfer after his sophomore year, and saying Vic was a “mediocre” shooter and always would be after his sophomore year, and there’ve been a number of those guys. We have a strong core right now. Chemistry, commitment of staff to the players who who are committed to the team and have shown contributions to the team matter. Running out and grabbing portal players at the expense of all that is not any kind of guarantee and it comes with risk. Guys like Leal contribute, depth, locker room, chemistry, skill set including shooting that with development can blossom, all that matters

Yeah yeah but can you pronounce Iwuchuckwu :)

Classic — i forgot a player lol ;)

Red: TJD Race JG - Kopp JHS X White: Duncomb Reneau - Banks Galloway - Dennis Bates Red wins - the difference is TJD

No inside info whatsoever but tend to agree. There's a reason the three guys announced early and we've heard nothing since other than Race going out of his way to say he's staying (which imo doesn't need to be announced). We know how Woodson valued Geronimo in the last several games, how his minutes jumped into the 20s, how his rebounding and blocks and D are valued, I have never thought he was considering leaving and still don't - a bit concerned about the possibility of adding 2 new guys, but those end of year conversations are not loosy goosey, and both the staff and the players are looking for their clear path, they don't tend to sit around waiting to see how chips fall into place

Well said, and dead on

Rooting for him to have a banner year at Cinci -- Thanks for all you brought to IU, and good to luck to you Rob

Wasn't meant to be directed to you str8

It’s just so bizarre and surprising to me to sit here and read people criticizing his D and actually favoring Kopp, it’s so plainly off. Those numbers, clear as they are, will probably just get dismissively disregarded. Kopp is just not a good defender. He does play positional team D, he does give good effort, his reads are good, but he doesn’t have any quickness, laterally he’s poor, has no length, can’t elevate against the 3, can’t stay with a slashing guard / wing, all those things were plainly obvious all year, while he scored at 10th on the team but some still advocate starting him, amazing

Bingo

Absolutely, watch a guy’s form, watch how he shoots FTs, watch his footwork and lift. I often go back to Vic bc of his massive improvement to his jr year of plus 40, on volume, from shooting in the 20s, and all the debates i had with guys who said he was not a shooter and never would be. The form was there, the work ethic was there, the footwork was there, but guys like to label people and fail to see the likely development. We have guys who can develop into strong shooters, i’d be surprised if Bates isn’t one of them. On top of that, really need to consider the other things guys bring, running out to grab a shooter at the risk of losing a guy like JG for examp to me would be just stupid. The guy kills the glass, blocks all over the place, defends nasty, has monster upside and already shows a good stroke on the trey. Or consider a guy like Wat. There were actually people talking about how it would be good if he transferred his soph year, gave him silly labels for his D, called him soft. How’d that turn out? Thank God we didn’t have the portal then

Gallo absolutely helps move the ball, he's one of those guys who seem to make players around him better. Right, not a 1, but the ball moves with him on the floor for sure. Now if he can just take care of that kind of out of control run along the baseline.... I'd love to see him doing those baseline runs like Troy used to do, just has to get under control (and Troy had similar issues early).

So Reneau's a clear 4 coming in, they recruited him, Banks is really a 4 isn't he?, another recruitment. In any event though we were talking about last season, re your comments why didn't they play JG on the wing, at least as relevant is the fairly obvious point that they didn't have a player to take on the 4 in any meaningful minutes if JG was on the wing and Race was sitting. Kind of important to your assumptions about what the staff was showing us, no? Come on now Gleas, you argue but you're not acknowledging anything that goes against what you want to argue -- that JG was the only real option at the 4 other than Race, and more importantly was developing really well there, best rebounder and right there in blocks with TJD. That JG has all the tools to develop into a wing player, length, wingspan, athletic (uber), quickness, developing and really already demonstrated outside shot, defensive tenacity. That OG is now a pro SF, same deal, lots of similarities in their college games. I think we're arguing past each other now, which strikes me as kind of odd since we all love what JG brings to the team regardless, but it'd be kind of cool if you'd at least acknowledging some things you know :)

This is a good point that I think is also getting overlooked in this discussion. While the point is made that he has been played at the 4 not the 3 therefore he isn't/can't play on the wing (with which I wholeheartedly disagree), the flip side of that argument, with which I agree, is that he is an already very good and improving 4 who can be absolutely dominant -- and the question there, which I think the staff considers, is not who else can play on the wing, but who can play JG's current role when Race sits? JG is right there with TJD in rebounding and shot blocking (he actually leads per 40 in boards). So who fills the 4 role on significant minutes if JG is on the wing while Race sits? That, to me, is why he hasn't been played more on the wing, not because he doesn't have the ability.

He already showed an outside shot, the point made is that he has both, not one or the other, and Smith had neither. They aren't remotely the same player.

Yeah, I don't buy it. His usage numbers, completely ignored, are already there.

Nice, we see things completely differently.

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing, or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter, man CAM was just awful. You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. DRtg - 94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ). What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb) ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes) USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc. FG% - 51.8, 3d OWS - .5, 5th eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress 3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

But it’s bern stated in this thread that JG never plated a minute at the 3….

Or hey the natural extension, because CAM played Smith as a “wing” therefore he was a wing! Clearly if he was a 4 CAM would’ve not put him at the 3, right? the insistence of being right seems to be getting in the way of actual discussion. Ignoring, as has bern repeatedly stated, that we’re talking about playing him on the wing with a developed handle, as necessary for the wing, as in no one said he already has that, with developed experience at the position becsuse he clearly has the physical tools and defensive tenacity and demonstrated exceptional D at the 4 spot already including defending - blocking 3’s, and obviously unlike Smith in any way has a good looking outside shot and has knocked down big 3’s in several games (are we really comparing JG to Smith? Really?) is just to say but look he hasn’t played the 3 yet therefore he can’t? Ok. A pessimist finds difficulty in every opportunity. An optimist finds opportunity in every difficulty. :) I see plenty of reason to develop JG — to improve his handle - to give him and the team more versatility. If he can’t he can’t, but no, we don’t know that. shouldn’t have ever let Vic shoot 3’s after his first 2 seasons bc you know he couldn’t shoot. Oh yeah, 40-plus shooter as a junior. Same conversation then - I remember it well, he’s not and won’t be an outside shooter. Ok.

Honestly it’s just about positional understanding with JG, that really should be obvious to anyone critiquing his perimeter D. He started bball late, he came to IU still raw despite making big leaps in his game in NH and getting late recruiting bc of it. He has all the tools and i think everyone here agrees made big strides his soph year in positioning, defensive reads, and play around the basket/rebounding along with elite shot blocking. But perimeter D includes switches, understanding offensive sets initiated up top, reacting to inside out and p & r / p & p, and playing almost entirely the 4 for Race his lack of experience at the college wing showed — But it’s crazy to me to talk about him as a poor perimeter defender without even bothering to note any of that. His lateral quickness, length, speed, defensive tenacity generally (exceptional), timing on blocks - including, hello, 3-pointers, is clear. A guy like Kopp has literally none of that, none. What Kopp has is experience on the wing for defensive reads. His effort also is good. But zero speed, athleticism, length, hops etc. On a Crean team JG would’ve gotten a ton of time early and i would bet a million it would’ve included wing play. So CAM was just awful, and Woodson required experience and proven defensive progress before real time, acknowledged that his assistants were yelling at him in a game to put JG in, and he then dominated, then later said in the tourney that he “discovered” a guy on his bench in JG and played him extensively (finally) and golly, JG was outstanding in the tourney. He is primed to have a major role as he should next season, and i’d bank on dominant offensive showings from him whether he’s playing a traditional 4 (would like to see that with Race) or on the “wing”

It’s message board fodder and honestly it gets old

Right, the focus on TO’s is exaggerated here, Kopp did almost nothing with the ball, he doesn’t even try to create his own shot.

Ok you know we 100 percent always agreed Smith was no wing, that was obvious, and JG has much more potential. Also though think we still get bogged down labeling or casting positions, definitely now a smaller faster more positionless game, as we see Draymond play center — and JG has defended centers etc. Kopp is most definitely not a better defender though, JG’s perimeter D was about learning the area - wing / perimeter D, as opposed to having the lateral quickness and movement, the close out to blocking a corner 3? JG, something Kopp could only dream about. Anyway we see his current level of development and potential differently, no issues there people will, but I would much, much rather see investment in his potential, which is higher than most, than a grab for the next shiny thing