Old Friend

We need a different kind of player than him. Indiana needs tough guys. Competitors. Kick your a$$ and tell you about it kids. Shooters with no conscience. Kids who'll guard, take away transition, and attack like hell on the offensive end. We need culture guys. Blackmon is not a culture guy. I'd take 10 kids with the toughness and competitiveness of Carsen Edwards.

The best of the best....what? Players? Team mates? Athletes? Shooters? You cannot win by stockpiling talent unless that's what you do every season. That's not Indiana's culture. The best basketball players are generally the best team mates. Not necessarily the best athletes. If you want the best, most coachable players able to develop, Indiana is well served by staying close to home because there are more than enough kids around here who DO know what Indiana basketball is. Who gives a sh*t how old they are or what they can remember? None of them remember the last time Michigan State won a title, either. (using your words) Above, someone said "get old, stay old." That's the formula for consistency and if you think Indiana can just wave a wand and begin their new "Like Kentucky" culture, you're nuts.

Unless you believe we can get better players / results at Indiana than Wisconsin. Which I do. Even if we didn't? (The discussion I am referring to was when Bo Ryan was there, not now. So let's make sure we get the reference right.) Ryan coached at Wisconsin for 14 full seasons. Here's all he did there : * Never finished lower than 4th in the Big Ten * Won 4 conference titles in 14 seasons * Went to 7 Sweet 16's in 14 seasons * Went to 3 Elite 8's and 2 Final Fours in 14 seasons * Won 73% of his games while coaching at Wisconsin * Really didn't recruit players much further away than Chicago. Staying close to home and going further out for selected kids only has been a formula for success for MSU as well. They currently have one active player outside the states of Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think most people here would "settle" for that. You can go root for Kentucky if you want to. That's not Indiana's culture, nor is it something Archie would do well; and I have no interest in it BEING Indiana's culture. Being in the conversation and being in position to win are all anyone can ask for. Kentucky won a couple under Pitino....with experienced teams. and has won one under Calipari. Yeah..they're in the conversation every year, which is exactly what I'm saying. Kansas won a bad conference for years and had plenty of success, but they too won just one title. They were "in the conversation" every season which again....is what I want for Indiana. Tell me how that's settling, again? I'm not sure I follow. If your bar is "winning the NCAA Tournament," that's ridiculous. Sorry..it is. Do you believe the best 4 teams made the Final Four this season? It takes so much to win a tournament like this... First, a team has to stay healthy; which as we've seen is no small feat. Then you line up everything else... Wisconsin, Kansas, Kentucky....they were under Ryan/are in the conversation every season. Indiana gets there? I think our fans would be just fine. And they would not think they were "settling."

Believe it or not. I know on the old board and I believe here... I have consistently commented that Indiana does not need to spend $600,000 a year to recruit basketball players (Crean did at the same time Bo Ryan was spending $65,000) because he was going after 5* kids from the east coast. Kids who didn't know who Indiana was, and didn't care. Only wanted a stepping stone to the NBA. Crean has players IN the NBA, so he can get them there; and he's now doing the same thing at Georgia. That can be exciting if the players in question turn out to be special; but that formula (adding single players that don't fit with the rest of the team..see : Noah Vonleh, Romeo Langford, etc) generally doesn't win championships. I got killed for saying Indiana should stay close to home and recruit 3-4 year kids because that's how you win consistently. And that's where I am...I want to win consistently. To be in the conversation for Big Ten titles every season. I have little interest in winning one year and finishing 10th the next, as Crean did. Many said "go get the best players you can, and it doesn't matter where they're from or how long they stay." I backed off a bit on where kids are from, but I still say midwestern kids are coached better in high school. Anyway, yeah. Lots of the "win now!" crowd wants the one year phenom's like Kentucky gets every season. We will never be Duke and I really don't want to be.

And THIS....is why I've been preaching about seniors...experience...4 year guys. Y'all are probably tired of it by now, but I also love to give evidence for why I think like I do, despite the arguments I've been hit with over the years. Exhibit A, your honor : https://sports.yahoo.com/one-for-the-aged-final-four-may-lack-starpower-but-its-bursting-at-the-seams-with-experience-025419225.html

It doesn't contradict anything and all depends on where your bar is. How you define "winning NOW." Win NOW, to me anyway, means win big. Win a championship. My standards as listed should be the baseline for Indiana, not a "win" standard. It's an expectation. "Winning" does not mean finishing 4th in the Big Ten, but doing do consistently does mean Indiana will be in or part of the conversation. Win NOW, to me, means win the Big Ten and go to the Final Four, NOW.

You've agreed with me a couple of times this week. Don't think I haven't noticed. Maybe Hell is freezing over.

He did fill a role. Not always well; but he was far better in the minutes he played - especially defensively - than Moore would have been. There were expectations of him doing more than he did. Nick Z was a guard and played in someone else's system. Much different player. Apples and oranges.

Winning consistently is more important than winning NOW. Indiana needs to be in the top 3-4 in the Big Ten next season; make the NCAA tournament, perhaps win a few games; and then do it again. And again. And again. That's far more important than a "NOW" one year solution.

Right. And he was. So why did everyone expect him to come to Indiana and do more than he did?

Fitzner averaged 5 PPG at St. Mary's. I wish I understood the high expectations, but I don't. I was far more disappointed with the complete lack of growth by Moore. Forrester was a freshman. Thompson was too, for all practical purposes. Moore showed nothing for a sophomore; and while I wish him well, we won't miss him.

They also thought Thompson would be healthy and perhaps that Moore would develop into......anything. I don't blame Archie for not having depth there. I'm sure he thought he did. Like I said, sometimes the pieces don't fit.

Not here to do anything but point things out : 1) Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy. If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis. If it wasn't Davis it was Green. If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks). If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts. Then it was Langford. And Thompson again. And Morgan for a short time 2) Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years. Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective. That's just a sad truth. Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner. 3) Romeo's agenda hurt. He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5. (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second) 4) Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet. 5) Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court. 6) Not having Hunter hurt us. No if's, and's or but's. Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready. (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me. Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played. In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen. One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis. 7) Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit. We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work. I truly believe Archie learned some things this season. It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me. I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help. Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30. He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter. Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive. Jackson-Davis is also going to help. With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens. Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson? And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable? I like our chances to be better. I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana. We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound. Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows. Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.

Trends are only valid if the pieces are the same. Romeo had a different agenda. Good riddance, Good luck, but goodbye. Lots of injuries and lots of Green/Smith who simply weren't consistent. Davis, Green, Phinisee, and Thompson all missed time; Hunter didn't play at all. I'm here to tell you Franklin will really help. As will Jackson-Davis. As will Hunter. I believe we add more than we lose and we're not done. Others will improve. Anyone who believes the sky is falling, I'd ask to give it another season. I'd bet Indiana is a much better team a year from now. (I'm betting hard on Franklin having seen him play. He can do what Romeo can do for the most part...and he's just as long and athletic)

This season combined the perfect storm of the wrong guys out against the wrong teams, a thin bench, a shooting problem epidemic, and different agendas. They played better late, and with the additions and a healthy Hunter, I expect we'll see next season where we truly are.

We're winners Indiana 76 WSU 61

This is the real problem. Most of us are sports fans who want our teams to win. The BOT is a political group (which actually includes someone who is a realtor's assistant.....that's her profession) who wants to keep their positions and oversee a university for purposes which have nothing to do with the success of anything.

I'm not following your numbers. He averages 3 TO's a game and until the last 6 games, was shooting 36% from the floor. (According to ESPN's stats), and I just showed you today he gave away at least 5 in the first half despite having a good game from a scoring perspective. He has 12 games with 3 or more turnovers, and he does take a lot of bad shots. Not sure why it doesn't make sense? Doesn't matter because as I said in the other thread, we won today in large part because of him and we'd have lost in large part because of him. He's just an enigma of a player.

He's good. Just one of those kids you could just see when he was younger. When his team played New Albany when he and Romeo were sophomores, I could just tell. Watching him the next 2 seasons, it was obvious. He's explosive quick and smart as hell. I love and loved his demeanor most of all. Still impressed by him when he's healthy. He makes mistakes too, but he's solid. I think he'll end up one of the best point guards we've seen at Indiana.

I took exception only to your comment that it's not true he gives away 5-6 possessions every game. He does. See my post in today's game thread We won today in large part because of him. Had we lost, it would have been in large part because of him. I've been coaching a long time. I don't just "take the bad." Teams don't get better if you accept consistent mistakes

Don't want to neglect mentioning the unbelievable defense we played late today. That was impressive.

Yep. If he can just limit the "bad DeVonte." He's so good when he just plays under control and so completely awful when he makes bad decisions, lazy passes, and tries to do things on his own. Today he showed both. Enough to help us win and enough to get us beat. I mean seriously...kid has balls. Let's just say it. But he led the team in turnovers again and took at least 3 horrible shots. Yes....he made big shots. Yes...he rebounded well. Yes...he hit big free throws when few others did or could. We won in large part because of him. Had we lost? It would have been in large part because of him. Just get rid of the bad stuff!

He's shown his entire career he can't. Serious question..why do you think he can? Dakich was right...is this about what Dakich said or what you think Smith can do? Smith is a one dribble guy or a catch and shoot guy (from 10-12 feet). He can run in transition; but he's never shown he can handle the ball in transition.

Whole team awful today. Phinisee included. Green has done it for 3 years and hasn't fixed any part of it. Hero plays, horrible decisions, bad shots, turnovers....Yeah, whole team is awful right now. Absolutely. Even Morgan is terrible. Green just does it more often than not and it doesn't seem as if he learns. And just there...a very lazy failure to block out a FT shooter. That was on him.

Just making sure you're watching. I don't want to be critical of the kid again; and I won't be. (Just stating facts) But...he gave away 5 in the first half today. (Arkansas) and it could be 6 or 7 if we really boiled it down. You can get on ME all you want. No real problem with that. However, your distaste for me or what I say doesn't make me wrong. I don't just throw numbers out there for the sake of it. Yes...he has made shots and we'd be down without them. But..he has also given away 5 possessions (at least). Which is my point. He needs to limit "bad DeVonte." Big time. I keep saying it because it's true.