HoosierAloha

Are we in fantasy land here or are we talking reality? We seemed to triple jump that line somewhere in the last couple of pages. W.T.F.

It feels unimaginable that some are talking about TJD as an all-timer but he's never been on a team with a winning conference record heading into his senior season. Wow, reading that is baffling. He's top 10 or close in how many categories and he's never had a winning conference record and I'd imagine will leave IU with a losing conference record overall.

Not to mention Wooden and Smith had a little assistance to get the best players. We can't do that here at IU because we value the amateurism of student-athletes or something like that but give him four years to figure it out because that's the only way it works.

Didn't someone earlier mention about getting into the 2020s instead of living in the 1970s? This is a solid representation of that statement. Goodness.

If we're "following the steps" we need to compete in the big games before we can hope to win them and we need to consistently be in the tourney before we can hope to have deep tourney runs. You setup the culture and system to take those steps. When your best and most experienced players are still going through the motions it shows that it's acceptable. When your system is still lacking production you might want to make some changes to get it going. I guess we could wait until season 4 to determine if we can make some progress in these areas.

We won a few games at the end of last season (ignore the games we were embarrassed in) and brought a few high ranked recruits in = elite status. We did some typical off-season talking about hanging banners and whatnot too. Why can't we be elite this season when we did the things we needed to do to be elite! Other programs added lower ranked recruits to proven systems and cultures. They're winning at a high level while we're trying to figure out why Rutger punked us again and why we forgot that we had to compete against actual elite teams.

I would agree to an extent. I believe fire is similar to leadership in many ways. There are some natural born leaders who just lead. They might not be able to explain why or how but they know what it takes to make others better and a group of individuals a team. Similarly, there are players who only know how to play hard. They don't understand taking a play off or not giving maximum effort in everything they do. However, there are people who can develop into leaders in the right environment with the right people guiding them. Playing with fire can be taught to an extent in the right environment where you're surrounded by players who won't accept okay effort and force you to raise your level. We don't have the environment or culture for either at this time. We have a team who accepts 3 or 4 senior+ who are cool with giving some effort or giving some leadership but when things start to go sideways quickly rollover. Has the next batch who will take over the team next year and beyond seen this and get pissed about it enough to change or have they learned it's acceptable and will continue with business as usual?

You have a point with how programs (companies, organizations, etc.) are run. Everyone should be held to the highest standards regardless if it's the head coach, best player, walk-on, GA, or the person running the varsity shop. (guy that used to run it was top notch) We don't have that standard at IU and it shows. I'm not big on how the unis look but if we need a change let's get it done. This program needs standards and to be held to them. It went out the window many decades ago and we'll defend our mediocre teams against "haters" to protect those who have turned it into a middling program. Speaking of standards, good luck with the goon or toon squad with your comments. I can see they provided the example already.

There’s a massive difference between expecting to win and at least competing. TJD tried talking the Rutger game into a win but when it got hard we tucked tail. At least we made a run in a few of those games to get it to single digits! We tried..

We’ll just run it back in the next AAU game later that day or in the tourney. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Pointing to stats that cause a big part of our defensive rebounding issues in a game where the player was just kind of there for much of it? That's been a problem for several years now. What's the saying? Someone has to get the stats on a bad team? Same can be said about a performance that resembles what was left in the toilet on Crean's in home recruiting visit.

Until our leader is our best player or vice versa, regardless of position, we'll be at this level at best. Give me a team full of alpha dogs that hate losing.

Huge difference between knowing good/great basketball and putting all the pieces in place and coaching them up. We don't play intelligent basketball, e and e is too often optional, and we lack leadership/culture. DD's comment doesn't sit well with me because it feels like there is more to that story than what we know.

Some on here understand what I'm saying while others don't. Let me attempt to say it a different way. Yes, a large part of that is on TJD. He decides his future by what he puts into his game. He is extremely talented, there is little doubt about that. His attitude, since being at IU, has been more concerned about acceptance than winning. He talks about getting better but he defers to being part of the team at the level they are than lifting them up to his level. That is what I have been saying for years and that is a sign that he lacks leadership. I know others want to call it quiet leadership but it's not the leadership this team/program needs from its players. My post placed TJD in a hypothetical of an elite program that has culture and leadership in place. TJD wouldn't be required to lead but have upperclassmen and like/better talent that would force him to get in the gym. Thus, for him to be "accepted" in that program he would have had to have worked his backside off and develop. That most likely would have led TJD to be out of college by now and playing pro ball. I hope everyone gets to experience both environments. When you get in the environment where good isn't good enough you'll run or raise your abilities to that level.You can be a lot more than you ever thought you could be.

There was an article explaining how this worked many years ago. A lot has to do with overpaying for foreign trips you get every 4 years and booking with certain travel agencies. Really interesting to see the programs identified and the quantity/quality of foreign players they recruited.

I would agree the players look content but I don't believe it has to do with NIL. Many of these players look the same attitude wise as they did when arriving in Btown. It's on the program, system, coaches, and players. I'd love to see some of these players dropped in programs where they have to fight and claw everyday. This goes back to a statement that was made several years ago. The majority of our players, and most of the leaders, are cool with being cool. That player leadership won't change until the majority give a **** or leaders actually step up and say no more. We're nowhere close to that point yet.

You CAN be competitive on the road against a ranked opponent! A lot of big time games today with a few big road wins. Fun times. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Which DD comment? Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

We must have very different definitions of elite programs which is different than elite teams. When was the last time IU put back to back almost elite seasons together? IU has had the binoculars out searching for the line a few times but we’ve been nowhere close to toeing the line of elite status in the past three decades. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Please read again, we’re not talking about TJD at IU. We’re talking about TJD at an elite program with a system in place. When you’re not pushed or forced in TJDs case you don’t develop to your potential. TJD is comfortable and accepted at IU. He gets his stats, mostly on bad teams, and is good with that. He’s a great young man but he hasn’t been forced to be more than who he has been. Therefore, he hasn’t developed and he’s still playing college ball on a good but not great team. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

TJD is playing pro ball right now if he went to an elite program. In the right environment, he would have been forced to develop more and could do more if not required to be the best player and leader.

We can post this again or no?

This isn't anything new and has been called out by "haters" for several years now. We have some nice young men on this team that are comfortable with getting put in their place by opponents. We could bring in all the talent and shooting we want but when there is a lack of accountability up and down the roster it doesn't matter. Unfortunately, our best talent aren't natural leaders and haven't been forced to step up. Some were concerned about this but "our recruiting class" and coach... There are issues with the roster and style of play but that is of less concern than leadership.

Did you see our "best" player turn it over in transition before giggling about it and joking with his defender? He can be absolutely fantastic but worries more about being accepted than dominating a game.

Nothing seems off about that?! I'm not asking for an Oladipo type jump every season, that's implausible. Why can't we see a player or two adding or improving a skill to their game over the off-season? That doesn't seem like much to ask. Bates might be shooting a better % but there's not much there. Who is responsible for skill development? What player is putting in the work to get that much better? (this doesn't include talking about getting better but actually getting better)