AH1971

Going to the coaching carousel every 3-4 years is how you stay on the merry-go-round for an infinite amount of time. There are so many external factors working against IU, fan base included, that make the hiring process next to impossible. And it gets harder every cycle.

Ding ding ding Had Cig gone 6-6 year 1 no one is talking about firing him.

For me, the realization came after we Fired Crean and the subsequent coaching search that followed. I think that was the first time I realized how big the disconnect between fanbase/administration and reality really was. The national media/audience laughed at IU for firing a coach who essentially won two B10 outright titles in a 6 year span with multiple second weekend appearances after bringing the program back from the dead. Meanwhile, we told ourselves we were poaching Billy Donovan from the NBA lol. Every coaching search that has followed has been equally entertaining and just brings out the worst in a section of the fan base. There’s no easy fix to this, if a fix at all depending on your expectations. We’ve been searching for our next “General” for almost 30 years…10 years ago in finally came to the conclusion that he doesn’t exist.

The same administration that hired Cignetti hired DeVries…what am I missing?

NBA has a minimum age requirement. I think if you added an exemption waiver that included religious purposes (Mormon missions), military service, and severe injury/illness (like recovering from cancer), it would probably pass. Basically make the NCAA a 23U organization where you can’t start your final year of eligibility after you’ve turned 24.

I agree making the tournament year 1 in this climate isn't a monumental task. But I'm much more focused on the long term, than the short term, especially with Indiana. And I haven't seen anyone suggest that DeVries should get 4 years to make the tournament. But that's also a lot different than saying making the tournament in year 1 should be the absolute bare minimum or else you're on the hot seat going forward, which seems to be the trajectory for first year coaches at Indiana. It's not like that anywhere else in the country sans a few programs. Indiana, currently, isn't one of those programs. Haven't been in a long time.

Very true. The "20 win season/make the tournament every year as a bare minimum" crowd is simply out of touch with reality.

You've got two options. 1) Declare student-athletes employees and form a CBA like you would see in a professional league setting. This would establish some kind of hard/soft salary cap and players would be held to the contracts they've previously signed. or 2) Declare an age limit (23 and under would be my preference) and a definitive eligibility standard ie you get 5 years to play 5 years. NCAA continually loses eligibility cases because they don't consistently apply their rules. Judges have sided with the NCAA when a precedent has been set, but you can't let one guy play and then deny eligibility to the next guy with a similar case. Once you start enforcing age and eligibility requirements consistently, the lawsuits will start to hold up.

To add to this, there are currently 4 programs who have won 20+ games for 10 straight years -Kansas -Gonzaga -Belmont -Houston *Oregon's 15 year streak just ended this season. There are 5 programs who have made the tournament every year for 10+ seasons -Michigan St -Gonzaga -Kansas (technically their 2018 appearance was vacated) -Purdue -Houston That's it, that's the list. I don't think people realize just how good Indiana had it under Bob Knight. A lot of people b******* about the state of the program either weren't alive for Bob Knight or were too young to comprehend it.

Couple things. 1. Every team has money these days. IU has a lot of money but I'm not convinced they have top tier money, at least in terms of player compensation. 2. Money is the ONLY thing IU has these days. There's no culture, there's no momentum, there's no nothing. Guys come to IU to collect a check. That's a harsh but true reality. We're spending, and overspending on that, simply to field a team that goes through the motions year after year. We give up on coaches 1-2 years into their tenure and by year 4 we're starting over. It's been a two decade plus cycle. It's a vicious one. 3. Winning 20 games and making the tournament every year should be the goal of every non blueblood program. The really good programs consistently win 20+ games and make the tournament at a high clip. Unfortunately, IU isn't a really good program right now....we aren't even a good program.

Never been easier? Why do you think that? I'd argue its the exact opposite and the last 10 years worth of results parallel that. IU is another program these days. It's irrelevant nationally and at best a middle tier B10 program. We've been passed by so many other programs the last two or three decades, not many meddling programs demand 20+ wins and auto tourney bids. It sucks but it is what it is.

He’s probably going to end up at Providence

Such as?

The variance in high major basketball is enormously large. Duke is a high major. Boston College is also a high major. There are probably 20-30 non-P4 schools chalked full of rosters with players who held zero P4 offers coming out of high school that would beat Boston College by double digits. I don't buy that you automatically have a higher floor because you chose to attend Boston College or DePaul over St. Mary's or San Diego St. Yes there are highly skilled guys who were passed over for P4 basketball because they lack desired size or athleticism just like there are insanely long and athletic guys who were passed over for P4 basketball because they lack an elite level skill set(s). If you put Indiana jerseys on VCU or St. Louis this year, nobody would say the Hoosiers are undersized or lack athleticism despite having a team full of "mid-major" players.

So what makes you think a failed P4 player is suddenly going to become a good player at Indiana? Guys are misevaluated out of high school all the time, and not just in basketball either, look at our own football team for crying out loud. I don't know how you can watch college basketball these days and not understand this? There are former mid-majors littered all over P4 rosters. Some bad, some just ok, some all-conference caliber, and some are the best players in the entire country. Would be utterly foolish not to entertain a 22-23 year old who may have been misevaluated out of high school.

Who has mentioned stats? Your summation is that because Conor Enright, Reed Bailey, Dorn, etc weren't plus athletes, plus athletes don't exist at mid-major schools. You're dead wrong. I dare you to try and tell me someone like Brandon Jennings or Elijah Mahi aren't plus athletes. On the other hand, don't, because you have no clue who either are.

Ya give me the proven mid-major guy that checks the boxes over the former top 50 kid on his 4th school in 4 years.

I pointed out the failures of this years IU team in a previous post which is also a confirmation bias. I fail to see why that should prohibit the staff from continuing to recruit mid-major players so long as they're evaluating the right ones? You wouldn't take Florida's team from last year?

I'm not suffering from anything. The mid-major bunch DeVries put together collectively lacked size and athleticism. That doesn't mean there aren't athletic guys out there at the lower levels. Watch SLU, Santa Clara, and VCU play this week, either of those teams will arguably be the most athletic team on the floor regardless of the opponent. When a large majority of the best players in college basketball the last few seasons have all been transfers from lower-level schools, your argument doesn't hold water. All three of Florida's guards last year came from low-major schools. Alex Condon was a San Francisco commit who followed Golden to Florida. Chinyelu was a back up big at Washington St. Thomas Haugh was a 200 level rated recruit with minimal P4 offers. I dare someone to tell me last years national champion team wasn't big or athletic because the majority of their players didn't start their careers at P5 schools? And they were a 1 seed, not a Cinderella story.

This years freshman class has some generational players and is potentially the best freshman class in a long time. The three best non-freshman in college basketball this year are Yaxel Lendenborg, Joseph Jefferson, and JT Toppin. Lendenborg was a JUCO player who came to Michigan via UAB. Jefferson was a zero star recruit who began his career at St. Mary's. Toppin began his career at New Mexico. There are countless examples of former mid-major players being the cream of the crop of college basketball who were overlooked in high school. Stirtz was a D2 player for crying out loud and is a projected top 20 draft pick.

What a myopic view. Literally 8/10 All-American's last year started their careers at non-P4 schools. The other two were 17 year old Cooper Flagg and Braden Smith who was a sub-200 level recruit with only a single P5 offer. Plenty of mid-major talent with the size and athleticism to play P4 basketball.

Or find ready to play mid-majors. The tournament is littered with kids who started their careers at mid-major schools.

My fear is we don’t get anyone near as good Wilkerson this haul. I think we’ll have a better, more rounded team, but guys with his skill set and scoring ability don’t grow on trees. He’s easily a NPOY candidate on a better team. No question.

So any team who suffers a 6 minute scoring drought doesn’t have a certified go to scorer? IU had a ton of problems this year, but Wilkerson’s ability to score the basketball wasn’t one of them. Terrible take.

Also coached Ben Sheppard and Will Richard.