Old Friend

No worries. I got home from a business trip late and typed it about 1:30AM. It likely lacked of clarity. =)

I think maybe we have to go undefeated for 3 straight seasons. That might convince him.

Noted. Thanks.

When you want coaches fired....you want the team to lose so they get...fired. There were threads wanting Fred Glass fired. Archie Miller fired. And Fred Glass fired. Both coaches within the first 3 years of their contracts, and nothing had even begun to play out. Miller had played exactly one season with even a single of his recruits....FIRE HIM!!! You wanted Indiana to win...."immediately" or fire the coach. That continued even after football season began. You're right. People were complaining. Without thinking or paying attention to what was happening right before their eyes. Did they not see it? Not understand it? Or were they rooting against it and ignoring it? Has to be one of the 3. Some still wallow when things don't go perfectly every second of every game. Same guys who wanted coaches and the AD fired. Only after Indiana won did anybody come around. You don't get to have it both ways. You don't get to scream for a coach to be prematurely fired because you want to win NOW when it's just not that simple; and then tell me all you want is to win, so now you're quiet and happy about the same coach you wanted fired 7 weeks ago. Are those people fair weather fans? So many preached how Indiana is a joke of an athletic program, Indiana won't invest, Indiana has settled for mediocrity. Blah, blah, blah. FIRE THE COACH!! (Translated....I hope we lose so this coach gets fired and I can be proven right about how miserable Indiana is) Oh...now we're winning with that same coach I wanted fired! Yay rah! Go IU!!! You can't have it both ways. You can't want a coach fired and then claim you wanted that coach to win. Doesn't work that way. And.....if you think the people who were mad and impatient are the only ones who want IU to win, you're out of your mind.

No. I'm sick of the negativity, the stalking, and hoping Indiana loses. Nothing to do with you.

With thanks to SouthernIN for keeping this thread alive, I think your silence (and that of a couple of others) is comical and deafening and I'm sure not only is the SUCCESS killing you but the fact I've been right about all of it has to be making you crazy. (Awaits rambling retort...) Your agenda and cynicism is noted. How'd THIS gem age (from FSU game the other night, right after halftime)? You seemed to take pleasure in a slow start...but then went into a cave. Deafening, I tell you. Alford Bailey replied to mamasa's topic in Indiana Men's Basketball Not the start to the second half I was looking for lol. Damn....foiled by success, yet again. 8-0 and #16 in Sagarin under a coach you wanted to get fired. Football finishes 8-4, wins the Bucket, and headed to a bowl under a coach you wanted to get fired. You must be about ready to jump off a building by now. And by the way, the rambling tirade? With all of that truth in it? Truth it's obvious you can't handle? Maybe 12 minutes. Thanks for reading. You and the other 2 Muppet men should go find another team or at least a balcony. Know your opponent, indeed. Mine's a troll. Must be a miserable existence waiting for the team you claim to love to fail so you can gloat to a bunch of dudes you don't know. SEE!?! We suck!! Told ya'!! Congratulations. You win....nothing. But at least you've been outed. Go IU

What else is new? Little brother's gonna' have a tough week.

Er..uh...um....er... um.... Yye.....I mean....NO, Billy! I am one of Santa's helpers!! Now go back to sleep and let me have that camera. Where's your mother?

Dear IU Fans everywhere, I can't control the results, however I know the young man, and I promise if he DOESN'T play that way the remainder of the season, it won't be for a lack of effort in TRYING to play that way. Much love, be good, and leave bourbon instead of cookies. Santa

IU 76 Wisky 67

I promise I won't gloat. =) He's going to be fantastic. So will Phinisee if he can figure out how to stay healthy!

The entire culture of the team has benefitted. One thing I will say for sure is based on what I have seen - and it's been an almost 180* pivot - from Archie, is we seem to be moving away from players who have alternate agendas and focusing on team guys. Kids who'll be around multiple years and want to be part of that vs. one and done or with their eyes on "next." Indiana is building a program with staying power. Games like tonight, with that atmosphere and that toughness against a really solidi defensive team will attract exactly what Indiana needs in order to build, get old, and stay old.

You didn't read this board all summer? The kid can play. He has ability to do even more than he's showing because his role is what it is right now. He's going to be terrific....

Here I am!!! Green played 29 minutes. He was 12 minutes of terrific. 5 minutes of "what in the hell are you doing?" And 12 minutes of spectacular. I don't think many would disagree with that. Making shots looks great no matter who's doing it. Lots of kids made significant contributions and I still think defensively, we were fantastic..and that's what's set the tone for us.

I know. Agree 100%.

Love the team defense. That's been the key in my eyes. Some nights you make shots, some nights you don't, but that defense will travel. Toughness which has been missing now looks like a staple. As long as the ball keeps moving and we don't allow ourselves to get trapped, the aggressive style will pay off. Keep killing them on the glass and make every shot tough for them. Our depth will be a problem for a lot of teams because there's really no weakness except DDavis.

Indiana 71 FSU 66

Since it's been a problem for at least 3 years....no. That would be a convenient excuse, but no.

I just don't think you've been willing to see what I've been trying to say and instead, change my argument so I admit I'm "wrong" somehow. The truth is, I think we agree more than we don't, so let's just leave it at "go IU!" I really don't need to be right and I don't feel the need to convince you. As I have said several times now, it doesn't matter. We're 8-4 and that's a hell of a football season for Indiana. I've said this program has a ceiling and it was on full display this season. Indiana just about maximized what Indiana will ever be as a football program; helped by a schedule....and it seemed every game included some mistakes that either cost the team or almost cost the team. Those mistakes have been spread around....and while I like the results, I also see the limitations and repeated mistakes. I am FAR more concerned with the big. stupid and frequently mental penalties and fake tough guy crap than I am anything else. Team discipline cannot be a limiting factor, and that's been a big issue since Allen took over. I wish I knew why...but it seems to be widespread across players regardless of where they're from or how old they are.

Is this a serious question? Did you read a word of what I wrote or just decide to type "few" words with zero meaning? Did you just respond by telling me who Ramsey played against? Did you just say Penix is "more flashy" and imply that's why Ramsey lost his job??? Penix is....."better." THAT's why Ramsey lost his job. Good grief, man. If you want to invalidate my argument, you might want to make a salient point against it. Instead you come with "flashy" and who Ramsey PLAYED against? He was 0-3 in those games, by the way.... So what if he "played?" You really....honestly don't understand the points I made above or why Ramsey isn't as likely to beat better teams as Penix is? Good. Grief.

Okay....I'll try this again...one more time. And the last time. It doesn't matter at all because Indiana is having team success; and yes, that includes him. He does not suck and he's not "bad." I have now said I was wrong for that comment a few times. I think he is an above average leader, I think he's tough, and I think his arm strength and vision as a passer are limiting. I'm not sure why you think any of that's unfair, or need more, but you do. You've been pretty vocal about what you think I believe and think I mean; and you've also done well putting words in my mouth; so here's some truth you also need if you're begging someone else to admit they were wrong : First of all, you're not objective. It's okay. No law says you have to be, but you're not. The offense died when James went out. That's when "embarrassing" was prominent and Ramsey was slow to read, slow to throw, and missed throws. He did. That happened. That's when I made the comment and I sure as hell wasn't alone. You think me including Ramsey in the blame when he was absolutely horrid for a few drives late in regulation is taboo? Why?? Is it because you want me to be wrong, or you really didn't see it? I think we both know the answer. Here's why I have the opinion I do...take it or leave it. But....don't cherry pick. Absorb the whole story for a change. 1) The point has been made here that Indiana needs to take a "next step" and beat the better teams in the Big Ten. As you're giving Ramsey all of this credit, Indiana ONLY beat teams that finished 4th, 5th, and 6th in their respective divisions. Team wins against teams not as good as we are. Using the Penn State game as a reference, I remember at least 2 deep throws, one to Westbrook and one to Fryfogle, which were slow to arrive, and had they arrived on time would have been much bigger plays, and Westbrook's a touchdown. Instead, we settle for 3 points instead of that touchdown because Westbrook was tackled instead of in the end zone, and we lost by 7. There were several plays like that throughout the season where a ball from Penix gives a receiver a chance to do something after the catch...down the field. Ramsey can only give receivers that chance on short balls. The whole team is better now. Ramsey is better now than a year ago, but I still believe his playing QB limits how far Indiana can go. See above teams we beat. I think because the team is better and deeper, the ceiling is higher, but it gets even higher with a QB who makes better reads and throws a better ball. 2) Yesterday....Peyton Hendershot had 4 catches for 46 yards. 33 of those yards (according to the post game show) were after the catch. A great play for Indiana is called, in many offenses, a deep flood. In Indiana's case, we'd motion Philyor to the same side as our TE, send him deep (along with the other WR's) to take his cover guy, usually a safety, and Hendershot stays to block before releasing to the middle. Ramsey throws it 15 feet, Hendershot gains 20 yards. Happened all season. Ramsey's yards, but that play and bubble screens to Philyor account for a whole lot of tat YAC increase. And that's GREAT! I love it. Indiana was able to win 8 games this season in part because we have better palaymakers, and yes..that DOES include Ramsey. However.... Indiana's play book for Ramsey is different than the playbook for Penix. And the playbook for Ramsey can beat bad teams. I don't think it'll ever beat better teams. It may keep us on the field with them, but as we saw against Penn State, we needed just a little bit more and it wasn't in the tank. Against Michigan State, Penix showed you what I mean, and were it not for a block in the back on a 60 yard kickoff return which flipped the field AND the momentum of that game, Indiana wins that one. Indiana was not able to overcome penalties in that game (and yes,..,I have mentioned that several times..it's a much bigger problem than Ramsey is) *** 3) If you can take a second and be honest with yourself, how many deep balls does Ramsey throw which are absolutely accurate? I think it's less than 30%. Some are caught yes, but if his ball is accurate to Westbrook yesterday, it's a walk in touchdown. Instead, Indiana gets no points because of one of those missed FG's. You...blame the FG. I see it a little bigger and say yeah, that was bad, but it never should have BEEN a FG because it should have been a touchdown. It was NOT a touchdown because Ramsey's throw was a bit long and Westbrook had to lay out for it. I ABSOLUTELY believe what I'm saying and absolutely believe that. I watched other quarterbacks make that throw yesterday and all were touchdowns. Indiana's was a missed FG. As I have been telling you all season, and you've fought it....there is more to the story. That's just one example. You saw a 40 yard completion. I saw a missed throw that should have been a 60 yard completion and a touchdown. We scored zero points. Should have scored 7. THAT...is where you and I differ and where you think I can't see the good. You blame the result of the drive. I blame the reason that LED to that result. Make sense? That's enough. You either see those points or you don't. I doubt you will because I think you're much more into wanting me to be "wrong," but I also think you have to put words in my mouth to make me wrong. I'm happy for Ramsey (and I have said THAT before,too); and he's done a pretty good job overall. But....I do not believe he is good enough to win the games you and others were clamoring for in the "Fire Tom Allen" thread. We STILL didn't win those games. Why are you not up in arms about it? Maybe because Indiana hit its ceiling instead of falling short of it?

Not at all. Just asking that you see the whole picture rather than the one that fits your argument. Did you notice the offense die when James went out...or not?

I said almost exactly this earlier.

What don't you understand about what I've been saying about Ramsey? I'm not wrong about what I've said. I may be wrong about what you've created, but that's on you. Not me. I'm happy for the kid. He makes some incredible plays with his legs. Yes...he does. He's been the quarterback of a team that won 8 games (5 of them, anyway), and Indiana has had team success with him. I think he's a decent leader. Never said otherwise. What is it you think I'm wrong about? And base it on what I've actually said. I already admitted I was wrong when I said he was bad. I said that after a horrible performance, and I should have said he was bad "today." I didn't. And I owned it. About what else do you need me to admit I was wrong? Comparing Randle El to Ramsey is ridiculous. Two completely different players in two completely different offenses playing two completely different roles, yet you're using one stat to make what you think is a definitive comparison. It's not. You can stop that one now.

I haven't seen the game yet, so I'll live it through the eyes of others. I just saw the box score and listened to the second half.