Southside

3 years is a common sense metric which most would agree is a reasonable time to install a completely new system, recruit players for that system, and develop leadership. I provided data points showing the names you listed were not good comparative examples. Please feel free to provide examples of coaches coming from a lower division/team (like Dayton), who install a completely new style, who inherited a team low on talent, and was sub .500 in their conference the year before... and then experienced early success like the names you mentioned. I'm sure there are a few, but I'd bet there aren't many.... which would put them as the exception, not a common sense metric or expectation.

Your examples totally lack context..... For instance, when a coach took over a new team... what was the team's record the year before, what players did they inherit.. how dramatic was the system change.... and, did they cheat? If you're talking about Sean Miller at Xavier, he took over a team that went to the elite 8 the year before. If you're talking about Chris Mack at Xavier, he took over a team that went to the sweet 16 the year before. If you're talking about Sean Miller at AZ, he took over a team that went to the sweet 16 the year before. Holtman took over a pretty good Butler team. Jury is still out on him at OSU. Hasn't beat a top 25 team yet this year, and lost to an unranked Syracuse at home. We'll know more about him when they enter Big 10 play. He's a good coach, so I expect him to do well, but he isn't the second coming... yet. Cal and Pitino are another level. Why would you ever compare them to Arhie coming out of Dayton? And... two of the names you listed were exposed for cheating. One is gone. But most important, Archie took over a team that had three guys leave for the NBA (as well as a transfer). It was a complete system change (Crean vs Archie). The above coaching changes I'd bet weren't anywhere close to the disparity of incoming and outgoing styles.

lol. no. we beat them (Marq) handily. we had a healthy team and a good bench play. a close game with Louisville is nothing to be ashamed of. Other than the loss to us, they lost to Marquette and #7 TN. they're a good team.

I've seen a lot of IU BB in my 48 years... This season is one of the least frustrating to me lol. IMO Archie is ahead of schedule. It normally takes 3 years for a coach to install his system and funnel his kids in. Sure we're not pretty, but we're getting Ws, we're over a major injury hump, and we're improving. Next year my expectations will be higher. We'll have 2 full years in the system, player development, deeper and higher quality bench, and we should have 2 five star kids coming in. The only thing we'll really need to figure out IMO is SG.

you beat me to it half the post on this board would make you think we're 2-8, not 8-2. IMO, the team is still gelling. And we're not close to the final product on O.

scrappy stuff. while not easy, we're learning how to win, learning how to win close games, getting healthy, and finally have a bench. we have a week to rest and to continue to get healthy before Butler, then two chump teams and then 5 more days to rest/practice before we get back to the Big10. the sky is not falling

happy with the scrappy win. still laughing at the chicken little folks that were saying we were going 0-4 after Duke. We're 3-0. sure we have things to work on, but the team is getting healthier and better.

JM will be in my prayers tonight.

I think JM needs to go granny shot style

wasn't pretty, but I'll take it. gritty win.

just need to make FTs now

IU ball

poor shot selection. should be nothing but drives

shin splint?

wtf happened to Morgan

some folks be like

If he's a lottery pick (RL), it's insane to pass up $ and risk injury. I'd love for him to return, but if he does, it's probably because he wasn't a good as advertised, or because he got injured.

Welcome to IU. Big get. 2nd 5 star from IN in two years. Might be the 2nd Mr. Indiana too. Hope to see a lot of player development this year.

UCD played 11 guys. Their bench accounted for 27% of minutes vs IU. IU played 8, and our bench 11.5%. UCD played at least 10 guys in each of those games. IU played 7-8 in the 3 leading up to Duke.

Injury is the main issue right now. Fatigue is just one of the products. We all knew we would rely on RL, but to have RP be thrust into this many minutes is tough. I'm not an Archie apologist at all. I just have lower, and realistic expectations because of the injuries. Most teams that run a small (#s, not height) line up, have at least subs that can pop in and let just about every player get a breather. At guard, running 3, we do not. I expect Morgan to be in shape, and be able to hold his own if forced into big minutes, but you're playing with fire when you have that situation with 4-5 starters. Especially 2 true freshmen. Honestly, we lucked out late in the 2H. UCD used 11 kids, and were fresh and accurate early. Our crowd finally came alive in the second when we got some stops. We had three 3pt shots in a row, or close to being in a row IIRC, which turned the game. The rest were free throws for the most part (which we made thank god). In short, we played a team that over achieved big time in the first half. Talent and a bit of luck overcame a team that was playing beyond themselves. If you can't look at the logged minutes of each player, and understand the impact of 3 games in 6 days, and 4 in 9 days, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a simple fact of B-Ball., and actually a much simpler fact of playing any sport.

when you run a 3 guard line up, and you have no guards to sub because of injury, you're going to struggle. take a look at the minutes played in those two games. Morgan didn't come of the floor at all vs UCD, and Durham (38 min), Phinesee (36), and Langford (39) barely got a rest. UTA wasn't that much different, but at least Durham was subbed for Fitzner (who went 0-3). Until we get guys back, guys are going to get worn out, and this team is going to struggle. It's not rocket science.

Duke is the favorite for the NC. They have 5 star talent at every position, and the best coach in the league. IU is not ranked, has one 5 star, and have huge injury issues. We competed with Marquette just fine, but Duke is on a whole other level. It's just funny to see all the folks expect that we're all of sudden going to be a top 5 team this early in the season with the addition of one 5 star. It's not like being a chicken little sky is falling guy is going to help anything. Getting thumped sucks, but at least it was early, on the road, and to arguably the best team in the nation. We'll improve a lot throughout this season, but to expect us to go on the road and beat a top team with the injuries we have, is just silly.

so much of this thread is laughable. injuries. 2 true frosh starting at guards on the road playing #3 who has four 5star freshmen and the #1 recruiting class from last year your most experienced leader in foul trouble not sure what you expect in the first place. then compound that with your best weapon is 3-15 (0-3 long), he also led the team in RBs, which is another problem all in itself starting 5 is 1-9 (starting guards are 1-8) from deep FT% is 56% Give the team a chance to get healthy. it's early. the whiny stuff is off the hook tonight. save it for when we lose at home to a **** team. we'll be right there competing for the BIG at the end if we can get some guys back.

just pointing out the "team" is not shooting well as the numbers say. i don't want to over rely on it at all. but i want our starting 5 to shoot well enough so that teams extend. the point about fitz is that he's a role player, and to an extent situational. we need guys on the floor all the time that are a threat to hit the long ball. i'm all for great defense. i'm also for a well rounded offense. there will be teams on our schedule that will be able to defend the low post play. it's harder to do that if we have guys that can hit from long. we don't have to have 3pt assassins all over the place, just solid shooters that are a threat, and keep Ds honest. he's one of the guys that need to improve lol.