Old Friend

Crean recruited with a shotgun. He often had over 50 offers out there, and he took whoever said yes. "Creaning" sometimes if he liked one shiny thing over another. Never built teams, and once in a while, the pieces fit. His 2 conference titles were followed by 8th and 10th place finishes, so consistency was a problem. Toward the end? His recruiting suffered and he learned (well, maybe he hasn't learned because the pattern has continued at Georgia) the hard way that he needs more than one 5* kid to have a good team, and never seemed to buy into "get old and stay old." I was low on him early because his half court offense was stagnant. I watched Verdell Jones stand for 3 years. I'm bullish on Archie because I saw changes last season late in the year. I saw him jettison Jake Forrester, who just wasn't a Big Ten player, but WAS his recruit. I saw improvement in Green's defense and decision making, allowing him to be a far more efficient player. I see what Archie's doing in the recruiting department. All of that gives me optimism. Glass was hamstrung on Crean. Crean did just enough...almost all the time. He was on the hot seat a couple of times, then had 2 good teams that bailed him out. I thought the first extension was moronic. Agree 100% there. But the second one? I didn't blame Glass at all for that. Iowa is in a different division than we are, so I can't compare them at the moment. They're also the only game in town over there, and there are lineman after lineman in Iowa. That "strong farm kid" thing is very real. Michigan State? DeAntonio is a terrific coach they've had for a while. Not a bad comparison, but they're not winning the division consistently. I disagree that we're not competitive with the big 3. Our problem isn't our ability to compete. It's depth. We'll see how that continues to improve My only point is, Fred Glass is far from the sole reason for our frustration

1) Men's basketball is on the upswing, and saying anything different is driven by an agenda. Glass really had no choice but to give Tom Crean the contracts he did; and when it was time to fire him, he fired him. The current coach has had exactly one season with any of his recruits playing even a single minute and played undersized and out manned for 2 seasons. The cupboard Crean left was pretty damned bare. Jury is out on Miller to be sure, but I don't know how anyone can look at the program and see anything but positive signs. Crean screwed up the basketball program more than Glass did. Adam Herbert screwed it up a WHOLE lot more than Glass did. The bigger picture places blame on more than Fred Glass. You've always been focused on the bottom line...regardless of how the program arrived there. Circumstances matter. 2) Football.... Your criteria are...what? Indiana football has never won. Under any AD and any coach except a few years in the 1980's under Bill Mallory. But....the recruiting classes have improved and talent / depth is at a 25 year high right now. Extending Wilson was not a bad call. Wilson took Indiana to a bowl game and was immediately hired by Ohio State when he was fired. Learning what he did after the extension is bad timing more than something for which you can play the blame game. The problem Indiana has in football now? Their ceiling is 4th in their own division. Who can they hire? You can be myopic all you want and pretend Indiana can consistently compete with Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State; but that's a fool's errand. Indiana hired a guy who built a much improved defense and a guy who has a ton of great local relationships with coaches AND ties to Florida. I don't know how many times Indiana has won 5 games in back to back seasons in its history, but it's not a big number. Purdue has a HUGE recruiting advantage because it can win its division in any given year, Indiana can't. Blame Jim Delany. Indiana football has a ceiling. I know you'll call that defeatist, and I get it. But do you REALLY believe Indiana has a chance to EVER do better than 8-4 or 7-5 in that division? Seriously. Do you? With those circumstances, what do you say to prospective coaches? It sucks..but it's also reality. Indiana got completely screwed in football. As did Maryland and Rutgers, and we have dominated those two. 3) If he has no idea how to evaluate coaches, why is basketball on the upswing? Why has baseball become a Big Ten power? Why has softball become a Big Ten power? Why has women's basketball improved so dramatically? Why have swimming and diving and soccer remained powerhouse programs? I know you'll disagree, but that's the reason he has defenders.

Used to call that the "Dick Vitale" quote. You used words, but as Bob Knight would have said "you didn't say a G*d d*mned thing." I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!

His sales pitch? "I coached Victor Oladipo." Done.

Exactly. =) Until he shows the ability to get it down the field consistently, he can't get it down the field consistently. He had a high completion %, but one of the lowest YPA in the top 50 in that category. He is a .500 quarterback at best. 5-7 looks like his ceiling until it's not. He is the safe, conservative play.

I KNEW it!!!!!

That pretty well sums it up except the one who thinks Ramsey's the one who can "really give them a chance." He probably wants Ramsey to start. =) The Big Ten needs to do something about the divisions. Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers have the toughest climb in sports, and it's not close. For now, 6 wins is about all any reasonable fan can expect. Sad that Purdue can expect 8 with the same talent.

Hunter is absolutely the real deal if he's healthy. If he's healthy and 100% through the pre-season so he can integrate, I think he'll be our best player before long.

What strikes me? If he goes to the right game, Assembly Hall will seem like the biggest, loudest arena in the country. Any questions on why Indiana Basketball is special? Take a look at these high school gyms he's used to. (His game reminds me of someone.......) https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/jordan-geronimo/BhSUx8yDEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/videos.htm

We did pretty well from 1973-2000 and had 12 Mr. Basketball's commit during those years (no other school had more than 3). We also had a few very Indiana-heavy classes and periods. 1987-1991 in particular was pretty fantastic in-state : Edwards, Jones, Nover, Leary, Graham, Graham, Cheaney, Lawson, Bailey, Evans, Henderson. That's a pretty substantial run. It's absolutely been done...just not in a while. Since that time, we haven't had the right guy telling the story. I think we do, now.

Curious why you felt that way? I've said for a long time we have the best story to sell any Indiana kid, and it's really not close. (i also believe the best story always wins if you sell it right) Any player from here can go to a school out of state, but there is one school and one school only since the 1960's (unless you're Larry Bird, and even HE started here) where a kid from Indiana can go and become a legend. Where a kid from here can go and never buy a drink again. Where a kid can go and make a name for himself and the school he goes to above and beyond anywhere else. Where he can become a household name and build a program or maintain a program of legendary status. Where he can play in front of a crowd like Assembly Hall's, have first class facilities and new age technology; AND play in a conference with its own network and every major cable/satellite contract; playing in prime time slots 85% of the time. That place for Indiana kids is Indiana University.

This is a great get. First of all, from my perspective, the most important thing to me is getting smart, tough basketball players. A very close second is getting those players to hang around and get old at Indiana. We can sprinkle in the occasional high-level, one and done talent, but overall? Give me a team full of players who can shoot, who understand defensive positioning, angles, and how to be physical; and kids who can see the floor one step ahead. In Leal and Galloway, we have two such players. I've seen it mentioned here and other places that they won't come in and start as freshmen. I hope they don't because I hope they don't have to. There is a whole lot to be said for development and being great as a junior/senior. I cannot stand the mentality that says a kid has to come in and contribute right away. There are 13 available basketball scholarships. Not every kid will contribute. Some will be in developmental stage, and some may stay 5 years to get where they need to be. I LOVE the way Archie recruits. No player will be allowed to coast, now. Brunk is tough as hell and won't allow Jackson-Davis to coast. These kids won't allow anyone to coast. We're developing a culture, and I LOVE it.

I have been called a hell of a lot worse, and proud of it. I trust my eyes, and I saw it. I have been really hard on DeVonte Green, and if I'm honest with myself, I saw lots of what I believe to be team growth manifested in him. I was encouraged despite the results.

This makes me happy. I didn't see it early last season, but I did see it late. If he's happy, we're going in a good direction. He's a competitive SOB, if nothing else.

Disagree here. Every year, within a 5 hour drive of Bloomington, there are enough good basketball players to win at any level at which we want to win. However, that's not really my point, either. I, too want top recruits from anywhere if we can get them and get them to STAY. What I don't want is some coach with "connections" to some region of the country to be hired instead of someone who understands and can sell the culture here. If that's an IU guy, I'm obviously in favor of that guy, whoever he is, over someone else. If it's Jack Sprat from Iowa, great....but the real point is we've tried to hire "coaches with connections," and it's gotten us a few players, but none that helped build the program. None that helped us win. None that helped Indiana get old and stay old. None that are now ambassadors for Indiana Basketball. The regions from which we recruit aren't really the point. I think players from the midwest are generally well coached and enough of them on IU's roster (or any roster....see Michigan State) will win year in and year out. But....enough good players from Texas would too. The point is simply that I think Indiana University is a unique place and a unique sell. Tom Crean has to play the AAU and shoe company game at Georgia. That's the only way he will ever get players. I don't think that game has to be played as much here; but I DO think any coach who recruits for Indiana needs to sell this program and its history. Not all kids will buy that or want that; but we've all walked around that campus. We've all been inside that building. Guys, there ain't nothin' like it anywhere around. I don't even think we need very many NBA lottery players to win big. How many'd Wisconsin have under Bo Ryan in his 14 year tenure? Wisconsin never finished below 4th in the Big Ten under him. There are a whole lot of great basketball players who aren't influenced by shoe companies or AAU money grabs. I want those kids. And I want them for 4 years.

I get it, but we've tried "coaches with connections." We've tried east coast, west coast, south... Calbert Cheaney is on the list of "all time college basketball players." If he wants the job (caveat) and was given a prominent role; it would take him 3 days to make any connection he needed to make, and AAU is the devil in my opinion. They have zero interest in the best interests of kids; and I'd rather not hire coaches because of their AAU connections. I don't care if everyone else is doing it. I think Indiana is a school who can get kids to commit regardless of some of that peripheral stuff; and the high profile players we've signed who HAVE those connections have done absolutely nothing to build the brand of Indiana Basketball and I can't think of one who's an ambassador for the program. Oladipo was never in that category in my mind.

I don't need to through the nomenclature or definition of a difference maker because we won't agree, anyway. What you're saying doesn't really argue against the point I'm trying to make, either. When did I say we needed to limit ourselves to just recruiting Indiana? If you have to put words in my mouth to make your argument, it's not a very good argument. We have hired several coaches who had "recruiting ties" to various parts of the country, but none brought in the right players to succeed at this school or in this conference. Who was that mousey guy Crean had who had west coast ties and brought Bawa Muniru? Indiana has avoided Knight's guys - except Dakich, and giving IU guys primary roles on this staff since they fired Knight. You can judge the results for yourself, but when you and others tell me it doesn't matter, I laugh. Where's the evidence that it doesn't matter? You have 20 years of trying it the other way, right? Happy with what that's produced? I'm not. My point is culture matters. Brand matters. Bruiser Flint et al have not done one damned thing to build the culture or the brand, and in my opinion, it's time we hired someone who can.

I know.....don't be nitpicky. That's not the point. He is or was the all time Big Ten scoring leader.

I am most definitely in the minority and I know it, but I think Dakich did more for this program in the short time he was here than any other coach since 1999. He had to clean house, and he did. Many here don't like the guy, and I know that. Regarding your first....kids don't know who most assistant coaches are. Calbert is as credentialed to recruit to Indiana as anyone who would get the job. Catering to the immediate satisfaction, right now side of kids, and hiring that guy for that reason would be a mistake, I think.

I think that's fair. I differ a little because I think so much has already been tried away from someone who truly understands Indiana. If we are truly a unique and special program, in my kind, we can't limit all of our assistant coaches to basketball stuff. They all know basketball stuff. I differ w you on Flint. I think he's worthless. We have had a few worthless coaches over the years. I'm of the mindset that culture is important and Indiana needs to hire someone who has a detailed and experienced understanding of and ability to sell it. I really couldn't care less about "national recruiting ties." In all honesty....other than Oladipo, in the last 15 years, who are the truly difference.making recruits from outside a 4-5 hour drive of Bloomington's campus? A one and done like Vonleh or Bryant don't really count in my opinion.

We have been down that road. How many coaches have we hired who have had "strong ________" on paper? Hasn't worked. To me, there is no paper profile. What we really haven't done is hire an IU guy and give him large responsibility. All moot if Calbert doesn't want it, but seriously... how much national experience do you need if you understand what you're selling? "Hi, I'm Calbert Cheaney. All time NCAA scoring leader and I played at Indiana before I played in the NBA for 15 years." If I'm a kid not bound by a shoe company, I am now listening.

This has been said and accepted over and over for 20 years. "The best person for the job" has not been successfully hired yet. It's been a turnstyle of failures since Mike Davis got the job. This is a very broad brush way of looking at it. What does "the best person" look like?

That's so awesome. It sure has. My son is with me. High school CF and a huge Trout fan. Saw him drop a fly ball and hit a HR. Perfect night, too.

I think so also, but he has to want to. I just want someone who can sell and who understands the culture at Indiana. It's been missing too long and I think the administration made a huge mistake distancing the university from Bob Knight. Don't have to like the man, but like any leader, he should be and should have been evaluated and judged by the job he did, and that was undeniable.

Fair enough. If accurate....I get it.