BGleas

It's also a really big AAU weekend, so while that doesn't impact transfer visits, it does impact hs recruit visits and also probably has our staff on the road and not on campus.

We actually got better after he went down but I get what you're doing.

And having 5 future NBA players around you that the defense is focused on. That team had way more talent than this years, it's not really close.

It's about overall talent and guard play really. Zeisloft was surrounded by 5 guys that eventually played in the NBA, and that doesn't even include Robert Johnson and JBJ. That team was pretty stacked, making a guy like Zeisloft even more valuable. That team had multiple guys that could break a defense down and get a bucket. While we certainly need guys like Zeisloft, we need those other pieces (guards and wings that can create and score) much more.

I would lean more towards nothing really changed and "every person who seemed to know anything" didn't really know that much, if anything.

A little different, Indiana had 2 McDonald's AA's on its 2013-14, along with the 7th rank 2012 class returning and 4th ranked 2013 class coming in. Not remotely the same thing. With Furst (5.5ppg and Loyer (11ppg) as our best returning players people would be going nuts with negativity.

Huh? If Indiana was returning a team with Furst and Loyer as their best players, this board would be jumping off the ledge and demanding Woodson be fired.

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards the idea that both Reneau and Ware might not start together. A lot of that depends on who else we get in the portal of course. Say we get Ledlum and Knecht, I'd say there's a decent chance both Reneau and Ware don't start. Both guys only averaged 15mpg last season. I don't see a guy like Galloway in that scenario going from 28mpg to 6th man, especially when also given Woodson's expressed desire to play a more perimeter oriented style. You'd go XJ, Galloway, Knecht, Ledlum, Ware/Reneau. Then you have a bench of Ware/Reneau, Banks, Cupps, Newton/Gunn and Sparks.

Right, and I think Ware fits that style really well.

We did some with TJD, but once XJ went down we largely ran the offense through the post. We did PnR heavy when JHS had a clear mismatch (ie Purdue with Edey playing drop coverage). With TJD and Race both of their best attributes was posting up. Ware has almost no post-game at all, that's not his strength. Ware also can shoot a bit and I think Reneau can develop that too. Reneau hit some perimeter shots early in the season. Beyond that, I'm not 100% convinced they both start. Not saying they won't both start, I just think there's a chance they don't both start. With Ware, I'd envision his game his PnR, catching lobs and almost crashing the boards from the perimeter after setting screens. I don't really see him in the paint that often, I see him way more active in terms of movement in the halfcourt compared to TJD.

I really don't think those expectations need to be put to bed. Ware is a modern big, not a post-up inside big. He's going to be out on the perimeter in the PnR game opening space for our ball handlers to get to the rim. His inside game is basically catching lobs off the PnR and crashing the boards for putbacks off of missed layups, etc.

He's pretty plugged in. Played at Michigan and is tied into the Big Ten. His content is a mix of analysis, some recruiting type stuff and entertainment type stuff mostly again focused on the Big Ten.

There is buzz and there's winning. If they're both at IU, I'd bet Ledlum has a bigger impact on IU winning game than Ware. Ware wins you the offseason, I'd bet Ledlum wins you more games in-season.

Is it realistic though? I don't mean to go at Wayne, he's a great, longtime poster of course. But is it realistic to act like recruiting is in the tank and next season is already going to be bad when the roster isn't set and literally not a single portal player that the staff is recruiting has committed anywhere, other than the one that already committed to IU? Wayne of course brings up some real questions and concerns, I'm not debating that. But, we're a long, long way from recruiting and next season already being in the tank.

Honestly, at this point I'd rather we recruit like Texas, UConn, Houston, Baylor, Miami, SDSU, Villanova from a few years ago, Michigan under Beilein, etc. Multi-skilled, multidimensional guys that are tough and athletic. We need to find guys like that in the portal, and while they need work and development I think/hope that Banks, Gunn, Newton and Cupps fit that mold. We don't need to recruit like Duke, Kansas and UK.

That's why I said people have different definitions. My definition, and many others, of hit it out of the park is what I said in my post. Finding pieces that fit. Getting at least 2 more guard/wings that fit the culture and are multi-skilled playmakers. Also, landing your main targets and not having to go to option 3, 4, 5, etc., to get players. Others think we need too land massive recruits from UNC, Kansas, etc., that are former top 30 recruits with ever portal transfer or else it's a failure. But, not everyone means that when they say "hit it out of the park".

Elite or not, that's just semantics. I look at XJ and say, which Big Ten point guard on another team would you trade XJ for straight up? I'm not completely up to speed on who all is coming back on the other teams, but I'd guess the list of point guards that you trade XJ for in the conference is pretty small. On top of that, we weren't even supposed to really have him back. It's almost like a portal win in and of itself.

I think people have different definitions of "hit it out of the park". IMO hitting it out of the park isn't necessarily getting 3 former 5* burger boys that are in the portal. To me, Woodson hitting it out of the park would be IU landing 3 of the top 5 or so guys we're targeting. Getting 2 more guard/wing playmakers and scorers that are ready to start and/or play 20mpg. Its about getting guys that fit what Woodson is trying to do, that help us move to a more perimeter oriented system and fit the culture that's being built.

You're not wrong. The prospects of next season are going to rely heavily on who Indiana gets in the portal, while also on improvement from guys like Banks, Reneau and Gunn. With that said, again I agree that Woodson needs to hit the portal out of the park (though I think we disagree a bit on what that actually means), but your stance that he hasn't yet is a bit dooms day. Nothing has happened yet. Nobody IU is targeting has made a decision yet. Woodson hasn't lost anybody that he's targeted yet. Maybe we reserve the dooms day until that happens? It doesn't matter that we get the highest rated guys, it matters that we get the guys Woodson is targeting and all of them are still in play.

I've been mixes on Caleb Love. As Wayne said, we NEED more guard and wing scorers and playmakers. Like, really bad. With that said, my UNC fan friends were jumping for joy when Love announced his transfer. They've also all been laughing at me since it was announced that Indiana was interested. They all think it's hilarious, and this isn't a group-think text chain or anything. They're all unrelated friends I've talked to separately.

I have a ton of respect for high school coaches, as I'm sure everyone here does. They give their blood, sweat and tears to the game and the develop of kids for very little in return in terms of money. With that said, this take that average high school coaches are better than NBA coaches is one of the most ludicrous takes I've ever read in something like 15 years of posting on these various message boards.

Exactly, and like we were saying yesterday, even Woodson has said he hasn't run his NBA style due to his personnel since getting to Indiana. This isn't some NBA system that Woodson has run here.

Bro, not only watch it, worked in the league for 5 years. Been on the team planes, been in the locker rooms during games. That's one example, rarely works. There's a reason there was a big article about it rare.

I wasn't talking about execution, never mentioned execution. I was speaking on the actions and designs that NBA coaches run. They're way more sophisticated and it's not remotely close. I never mentioned anything about JHS. We ran some high ball screen action for him, mostly against Purdue and other defenses that played drop coverage, but there were times Woodson did run some very well designed sets to get JHS to that open mid range. What's your point?

It depends on what you mean by less varied? Are you referring to junk defenses like a triangle and 2 that high school coaches sometimes run? Ok, sure varied, but only because you'd get absolutely torched running garbage defense in the NBA. NBA defenses schematically are light-years more sophisticated and complicated than any HS defense. It's laughable to suggest otherwise. Same for offense. The actions NBA coaches develop to create specific mismatches are also infinitely more sophisticated than any HS offense.