TrueHoosier62

A true Hoosier fan does not hate Tom Crean. Tom Crean is just a man trying his best to win a title here, and there's nothing to hate about that. No, a true Hoosier hates there being nearly 30 years in between titles. A true Hoosier hates watching a product that despite 20 plus wins, still exhibits too many flaws to seriously challenge an end to that drought. A true Hoosier hates being told that all is right, when they know better. Again, I understand your point of view, and I respect it. I just don't agree with it.

15:1

And for the record, I don't know what it takes to win a title, but I know greatness when i see it, and so do you. We're fans of the greatest University in America, and we saw that greatness displayed on the court it in 76' and 80'. And It's not living in the past to use a matrix of championship traits to measure current teams by; it's wisdom. Crean's teams are competitive, and at times, exhilarating to watch, but they don't cover enough of their shortcomings to be a National Champion.

We're all real IU fans. You, me, everyone, or we wouldn't be here. We just look at things from different perspectives.   Peace.

Fair enough; I give him exactly one ounce of credit for having taken a decimated program, at a storied University, who's built in ability to draw superior talent is the envy of the Big Ten, and created a competitive basketball team. Unfortunately, it takes a combined pound of effort, knowledge, insight, game planning, orchestration, oversight, discipline and drive to win a National Championship; which leaves Tom Crean approximately 15 ounces short of the mark.

lol

And thank god that you do, or I might feel as if life isn't worth the living.

You don't honestly think his behind was ever not saved do you? My friend, as long as there's a Fred Glass at IU, we'll always be able to count on seeing Tom Crean court side, deliriously clapping his heart out. They're like the moon and the tides, forever  dependent upon the other for their very existence.

I've no doubts at all. He's not a coach who's capable of winning a National Championship. Not this year, not next year, not ten years from now. Once it became obvious to me that this was the case, I no longer needed to consider the impact of "next year's recruits" or stress out over wins and losses and how they might impact our standings or seeding, etc. Of course I support IU, and would like nothing better than to see another banner hoisted to the rafters, but I won't allow myself to get caught up in the moment. One need only look at the man pacing the side of the court to be reminded of the futility of that exercise.

Stu, what I'm saying is that our margin for error is razor thin, (thinner than most). This is what happens when you have a team that relies so heavily on its three point accuracy to overcome turnovers, (too many of which are unforced), poor defense, (improving, but still not great), questionable substitutions, poor strategies and a general lack of fundamentals. And we should not forget our annoying habit of mentally checking out at the worst possible times. We're the classic "dangerous" team that could get beat in the first round or make it to the final four. That's not saying we're a terrible team, just that we have to shoot lights out unless every other part of our game is clicking, (which doesn't happen consistently).

I was only referring to a single game against Penn State. My point was to show that we are, perhaps, more capable of beating ourselves than any other team that might make the NCAA field. Our bench is good, and compared to other Big Ten teams, it's towards the top. But "MadaboutIU"s assertion dealt with how it might play in the NCAA and/or the larger field, and in that context, it's only average. Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, all have considerably deeper benches, with more talent than we do.

Just a single game of course. I may have taken his assertion incorrectly.

Jesus, I'm not even sure where to begin....but I'll try.   "Teams that have played better than Indiana during the conference season":   Penn State, Wisconsin & Michigan State come to mind. There are too many teams outside the conference for me to mention them all, but yes, Villanova, UNC, Kansas, Xavier, just to name a few, and there are probably, at least, another 10-15 teams, outside of our conference, who've played better ball than IU during the conference portion of our season.   "We have a deep, complete team and the NCAA is a crapshoot":   I might agree that we have a deep team, but that depends on what level of play you expect out of the bench. Ours is fair, decent, but hardly anything to hang your hat upon. And while the NCAA tournament involves a modicum of luck, it's hardly a crap shoot. To win six straight games against varying styles of play, athleticism and coaching, on neutral and sometimes not so neutral courts, you've got to be far more than just good, and a helluva lot more than lucky. That you think we can win it all simply because you perceive the tournament to be a crapshoot, says more about your own perception of our chances than I do.   "There's always room for debate but you'd have to be ignorant or stupid to keep questioning whether Indiana has a tough team this year. It's as plain as day that this team is having a ball playing together"   I consider myself neither stupid nor ignorant to question what to me, appears obvious. I don't think you're stupid or ignorant for disagreeing. I just disagree with you, that's all. The team can have a ball all they want. They can giggle and laugh and tickle each other for all I care. They just aren't, in my opinion, good enough or lucky enough, to contend for a NC

There's always something debatable on a forum, including whether or not this team can "contend". Contend for what, sole ownership of a Big Ten title? Sure, I'll agree with you, we can contend for that. Contend for a Big Ten tournament championship? Less sure, seeing as we've never done it before, even with the advantage that we should have, playing it in our back yard. Contend for an NC? Not a snowball's chance in hell. We'd have to have too many things break our way, and we'd have to shoot lights out for six straight games. On a neutral court. Against considerably better competition than we've seen in the Big Ten. With Tom Crean as our coach. Pffffft.

I can admit that a Big Ten championship is nice, and a 23-6 record is nice, but that's all it is; "nice". The problem of course is that we didn't buy "nice" when we brought in Tom Crean. We brought in a coach that supposedly had/has what is takes to win an NCAA championship. To date, that hasn't happened. Nor, given the type of players and game philosophy he's beholden to, does it appear likely. Until he does, "nice" doesn't cut it with me. Until then, he's Gene Keady, Lou Henson, and That Matta rolled in to one. Until then, this thread should stay open.

Difficult game to predict, given the "Sybil" capabilities of our boys in cream and crimson. Let's see, our shooting versus their athleticism, Groce versus Crean, border battle between two states who despise the other.....eenie meenie, miney, mo.......flip a coin.......   Illinois 72 Hoosiers 71

Would if I could. Perhaps one day.

If this doesn't give you a bit of wood for the upcoming season, nothing will. Of course, at my age, I'm envious of a stiff wind....

Thank you Rodney King.  :lol:

I say I'd like to go fishing with you some day. That's what I say. :-)

Good news. Let's land that killer whale!

And Michigan State. Don't forget Michigan State. Penn State was no signature game either.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I just don't agree that Crean has somehow become a better coach this year. In my opinion, he's the same coach he's always been, turning out the same product, which relies on three point shooting, athleticism and a weak schedule to get the NCAA tournament card punched. His Big Ten record, though nice, has been achieved during one of the weakest top to bottom years I've seen in the last 40 seasons of Big Ten basketball. Ohio State?; down year, Michigan?; down year, Michigan State?; extremely average, Wisconsin?; arguably their worst year in over a decade, Illinois?; pathetic team. Northwestern, Nebraska, Rutgers and Penn State, (do they really count?). That leaves Purdue, Iowa and Maryland, none of which have a snowball's chance in hell of winning it all. Most years, we have two, maybe three teams in the league where an argument could be made that they have what it takes to get to the final four. This year?, there isn't one team that I'd give good odds of achieving it; not one. Am I happy we're winning and in first place; sure, but let's not fool ourselves. This team has the same DNA that all of Crean's teams have had through the years; poor defense, a Jekyll & Hyde offense, too many turnovers and way too many mental errors. Supremely beatable when either an equally talented team plays them, or when a lesser team knows how to force them in to a half court game. This is what Crean's coaching philosophy leads to. This is Tom Crean.

As is often the case this year, we come out with a win, and none of us is quite sure how we should feel about it afterwards. It's a bit like watching your mother-in-law drive your new Cadillac off the edge of a cliff, whereupon impact, it bursts in to flames, killing and destroying everything. I guess there's good and bad in everything.   Most of us are happy for the win, to be sure, but the same flaws continue to rear their ugly head at the damnedest times, (mental errors, really), and it leaves you wondering if/when they'll ever "get it".   I thought the refereeing was atrocious. It seems that any time Ted Valentine is in charge, you can count on two things.   1.) An abundance of fouls, most of which leave you shaking your head 2.) No consistency. How many steps are allowed in basketball these days? Either the number has risen to five, or Ted can no longer count.

Complete, concise. Accurate.