8bucks

This is the Fire Tom Crean thread after all. I have seen a couple posts suggest he has done enough to have their support for next year. That creates the fury of response in this thread. [attachment=3252:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1453318809.646567.jpg]

Ok but if you lost Biedeldt would you feel pretty good about just having the freshman? I would not. The plan for the year was to have two, maybe three more bigs between HP, DD, and EH.

Fair point but after watching him play this year his offense is something I think we can replace to some extent. He was most lethal as a shooter and we have others who can pick up that slack. Not a complete replacement for sure and I will admit our PPG may drop without him. TC talked about how he makes teams spread out the D to account for him. NZ, RoJo and Colin have to fill that void. Some games they have others they have not. Fortunately we have depth at that position. Defensively though playing him and NZ together was impossible. I think we gain some there. Had JBj been a big I think his loss would have been bigger. A team that plays good to great D will allow you to win games when the shooting goes south. We have seen that recently.

I am fine with that too. Make noise is subjective and labels are not always reflective of potential. This team has talent and beginning of the year it was fair to assume an overachieving year meant elite 8 or better. I see no reason to change that unless we enter the NCAAs a top 8 seed overall. Then we have to exceed that.

If you are making a "keep him" decision based on midseason results then you may never be ready to make a change. TCs teams down the stretch fade. It is a fact I have looked back and he has had two teams in his career perform better (win %) down the stretch. DWade and VO. I am open to keeping him IF: 1) we overachieve in the BT, BTT and the NCAA. 2) this is not the peak year. We lose a lot of seniors and possibly TW. The last few years we have lost underclass men (non NBA) kids too. Next year has to appear very likely to build upon our overachieving year. In a single year snapshot that is an unfair burden but since we have a lot of TC history to look at it is fair.

Were you the one who argued the same for Yogi last year (degree in hand and not coming back). Certainly different guys but I just don't think a degree matters much to guys who have pro ball aspirations. A degree is important but I would think they value that as an asset for later

After the Warford, Hulls and Elston group we have struggled to get kids to stay four years. Yogi is the only one of his class. Most of Troy's class is gone. I'd like to think we keep RoJo, OG and JM for four but if Emmit, DD, Stan, Max, JH, HP taught us anything it is that we have had problems recently keeping kids.

Do you think there would be an overwhelming opinion that losing Yogi, NZ, Max but adding Thon and we are a FF team?

This is pretty cool. Open spot and a need for another practice player. Not expecting him to play much but still would have been a thrill for anyone

Wonder how many of us thought that if all our guys came back and we added TB we would be a FF caliber team this year.

Pat tried and DV tried but a fan angle who wanted to try and influence him as the OP stated is a new angle. I mentioned Pat and DV as potential messengers for this new approach. They would not be trying to get him back based on their thoughts but based on a groundswell of fan support. They just happened to be the ones we found to deliver the message. I don't think it would work but I would be on board with one last attempt to bring him back. Maybe one of the message boards could sponsor the effort.

Pat knight works for the Pacers. Could try that route. Dickie V may be another idea

I wrote him a letter when he was at TT and asked him for a favor. I did not know him nor did I have any friend of his refer me. On the same day he received my letter he honored my request. At some point a letter like the OPs, a nudge from Vitale or something similar may year down that wall. I doubt it will happen but it is worth the effort. Unfortunately, not only is he stubborn, I also think he does not care. The reunion would initially be more for Indiana and the fans but I think in the end he would be blown away at the reception and it would mean a great deal to him too. Just not sure the path to his heart will ever open.

Coaching and developing a team of three stars is not what is hard to overcome (for the next coach). The fact that many already see TCs seat as hot and if he gets to the final year or two of his contract he will struggle to convince any recruit to come. That is what will be difficult for (TC) to overcome. That is why this idea of honoring contracts is garbage if assumed literally. Look at Wilson. We did not wait until his current contract expired before signing him to an extension. The same for a guy you don't plan to keep. Once you get to 2 years left coaches are fired or extended.

Well the good news is every four years you are certain a TC coached team will be ranked in the top 25. [attachment=3196:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1452615203.431995.jpg] It used to be every 4 years we won at least one BT title and every 6/7 years a national title. Now we celebrate having a top 25 ranked team every four years.

Appreciate your objectivity here but he can't recruit if he has only 1, maybe even just two years left on a contract. The ambiguity about him being the coach would difficult to overcome and he would leave us with 2 weak classes for the new coach. With about 2 years (if not before) left he will have to be fired or extended.

Hopefully the buyouts favor Indiana not the coach. If so, I am fine with the extension

Can't be an injury. We saw what he did when he dislocated his finger (4 for 5 I think).

Good. I probably only remembered the early slump. Butlers Dunham had a 0-23 slump for a stretch and still seems a little off but I would still want him shooting if I were butler.

I agree. I think he has the makings of stability IF we can see our freshman continue to develop and eventually become seniors. That has been such a problem during the non VO/CWat/Hulls years. We had a few guys leave early but we had s core group stay and become a strong team. Since then we do not get to see kids stay that long.

Didn't NZ's shooting percentages drop off last year in BT play too?

The team is playing much better D and is much more fun to watch. I am enjoying watching the team and look forward to seeing if we can continue to win the games we should. I am also very interested to see if we can get some wins against top 25 teams. Even though we lost JBj, this team still has talent and experience to be an elite 8 team. I will measure this team in the end based on BT play, BT tournament play and NCAA play. I think to keep Crean he has to have a team that exceeds expectations, especially in the post season.

What other schools were involved

Our recruiting is down a bit from earlier years but we have produced way below our class rankings Year. Class rank 2016. 18 2015. 25 McD TB 2014. 17 McD JBj 2013. 6 McD NV 2012. 8 McD yogi 2011. 33 but we got Zeller McD

Defense travels better than offense (or so they said during an NFL game this weekend). I would be fine with this team becoming a gritty defensive bunch even if we sacrificed offense.