8bucks

I agree with you. As long as we do not collapse to end this year and all they key players return for next year Crean will be back next year. Then it gets interesting. As you pointed out, we lose a lot of key guys at the end of 2016. Next year we bring in some nice pieces but to be fair they will likely develop at best like Troy and VO did over a few years. We will need more high end talent to add to guys like Rob, Emmit, Collin and the '15 kids. Yet as others have pointed out, some of the uncertainty is probably hurting Creans ability to recruit. Imagine if you were recruiting against IU and wanted to create some doubt for a kid. Would you not point out that Creans contract become easier to buy out after 2016? I think it is going to get harder for him to recruit and only a real big run this year (not a fair expectation) or the commitment of a very good big man for next year will help offset that. So what happens, let's say we make the tourney the next two years and even though we look to lose a lot of kids at the end of 2016 we have some highly ranked kids in 2017 that we can bring in IF we remove some of the doubt on who the coach is. Would you be ready to extend Crean next year? If not, the current doubt that hovers over him combined with his contract buyout becoming a minor issue will make it very hard to recruit. I think it was Davis who used this angle to extend his contract and many others do too. The next few years are going to be interesting.

My consistent winning standard is based on being like OSU, MSU and Wisconsin over say a ten year period. I am neither convinced he can nor convinced he cannot but assuming last year was the one in 10 bad year then we need another 6-7 good years. Good years again would be where we are in competition for BT championship. Even though his first run to the sweet sixteen we did not compete for the BT we had a good post season run for they team so I would count that. Crean will eventually have to do more in the NCAA but if he builds teams that consistently fight for the BT crown like MSU OSU and Wisconsin have done for the last decade then postseason success should follow.

I had hopes that by this point our youth would be more experienced and we too would be playing top notch. It is there within grasp if we finish out well

I listen to DD a lot and have not heard him talk bad about any current coach. I have heard very few analysts ever directly criticize a coaches ability and many gush about the brilliance of coaches that most feel are average at best. That being said, I think Crean is a good coach. He has had some success against top 25 teams and has beaten all the top coaches in the BT. I am not yet convinced he can build a consistent winner at IU.

I agree. Those quotes all paint the picture that due to certain positive traits great Crean will do great things. The rebuild was great but the time since has been ok to good only. With the incoming recruits and another year with the current core and we could move up again but we need to build from here going forward. No more years like last year

Thanks. This is what I thought but I am not clued in as to whether Presb or Furhman are any good.

Based on our schedule is 3-3 a good start?

In time he will need the FF and I think if he can consistently have is in that top tier in the BT the FF will happen too. I also think there are many here that are arguing for a FF soon but instead are more concerned that we may not be mirroring that top tier. When things go well like in 2012/13 we can but the question we have is how often will we have the years like last year? Now the FF comes up because of the ending to the 2012-13 year but with more opportunities that will fade.

I agree with just about everything but am not sure he gets three more years. To stay I don't think he has to have a FF in that time frame but will need to keep us in the top tier of the BT. By the end of 2016 if we have two top tier BT finishes, two NCAA tournaments and are set up to expect to build on that in 2016/17 then he gets the third year. If we have a drop off, miss the tourney or it looks like the 2016/17 season will be a drop off then it will be time.

I think we should expect to be on that par but we do agree that where IU is today is discouraging. So we have Crean to consider. Is he the guy to get us there? I was an avid supporter during the rebuild but the sustain years here have me doubtful. Honestly had we kept Luke or had Lyles remained committed I think we are a lot closer. However, they did not and dealing with those kind of losses are not unique to us. What is your timing then to have a good evaluation? After this year? Next? Longer?

Maybe we just disagree on expectations. Do you think we should expect to have a program that at a minimum is on par with Wisconsin, OSU and MSU?

I think Crean can eye talent at times but he has a lot of misses too. All coaches do. Troy had offers from a lot of other programs so Crean was not the only special coach to notice him. [attachment=1713:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424570947.206287.jpg]

Maybe we are spending too much time on these side items. What are your expectations for the basketball program at IU? It seems from some of your posts that we should not expect to be a top 3 program even in the BT but I may have read that wrong.

You said Smits was soft and not ready. April is the same but gives you very little upside. If you have not noticed Zionsville is an affluent Indy suburb capable of attracting some talent. You said there was no reason to choose Indiana kids vs out of state and I provided two good reasons. Not rock solid absolutes but worthy of discussion but you now are taking this down a different rabbit trail. We were talking about the last few guys on the roster so why switch this to a debate on the best players in Indiana. Since you lumped me into a big category I will do the same with you. Why can't you simply say you know what, it might have been better to bring in a guy like smits vs April. Instead you act like a lot of other Crean defenders and cannot even agree on any things that might possibly be faults or errors. You lose credibility when you cannot even discuss ideas

I am not sure we should have sat on it but I wish our staff would bring in 3 star bigs and develop them to add to the mix with the 5 star bigs we get on occasion I would prefer the local three star big vs the out of state 3 star big primarily because of the in state value. We bring in smits and we get pops at the game which is not bad. Then you build a relationship with Zionsville coaches which may pay off later.

is he worse than April?

1. Finding ways to win consistently in the BT and in the tourney. A. I prefer guys who can develop players and play both sides of the ball well. B. That being said, if said coach wants to run a gimmick system but can accomplish the overall goal I am flexible 2. Recruit and mentor young men we can all be proud of on and off the court. 3. Don't be a cheater.

I think when you are looking at the back end of the roster there are a couple advantages for choosing Indiana guys. First, we should have had more opportunities to vet local kids. Not a fail safe see Hollowell but it should help. Secondly, we are more likely down the road to sign our top players from schools nearby. So by signing a local kid you have a chance to build a much stronger relationship with that kids school and coach which may pay off later. Again more likely to sign a top 4 or 5 star kid from an Indiana school than a Texas school. Now if the out of state kid is a lot better get him but if basically a toss up then recruit local. I am fine with going to areas we have built success out of the region if we are establishing relationships consistently like we did with DMV. Priller and April do not look to be BT caliber either.

He does. Crean talks about him often. Thinks everyone should be like him. It is a bit annoying really for him to choose one poster on here and show such favoritism. "He's shown tremendous athleticism, competitiveness, toughness," Crean said. "He's got very, very good second and third reactions and short-space quickness, which is huge.

Your probably right but that does not really justify not having one or the other on the roster. Expecting to field a championship level team with neither a 5* or a strong role playing big does reflect a recruiting issue that is fair game for doubts. Even more so if we repeat this again next year.

When did Rawle last visit here?

I would imagine this is not sufficient. Every four-year player of Tom Crean’s has played on a nationally ranked team at Marquette or Indiana. twitpic.com/e5b6of Woo Hoo

I had to put that in because people use our losses as excuses whereas MSU and OSU have not. Certainly Wisconsin has lost fewer kids early but like the other two they have had continued success which is my point. Three teams in the BT are finding a way to have continued success. It might be hard for Northwestern to match that but we should strive for that as a minimum.

Look at MSU, OSU, Wisconsin over the last ten years. Three teams in our conference that are getting it done every year even with early departures. Just about every year they are in the top 4 of the conference and in the tournament. Expecting less is crazy.

He did not. I kept expecting Zeller to show us a mid range game his soph year but it was never there. Would have been a great to to have him take that free throw J in the middle if the Syracuse zone.