Aaron

Probably fairly lateral but with right promises and resources, moving to a similar school two hours away would be easy for her if interested. Whether they can get her is another question but she would be my dream hire of any halfway realistic candidates.

She has turned an Illinois program around that was worse than IU into a solid team. She plays with a system that includes slashing/driving athletic guards that fit the modern game really well. Her press conferences are some of the most intelligent and technically sound out there. She has a lot of Moren's values, but is a much softer version of her (in a good way) and someone who would instantly become beloved as the face of the program. Green also seems like a super nice person. Moren is an excellent coach and a great face of the program, but has a gruff side to her that is entirely absent from Green's personality. Basically she is everything Moren is without the two small flaws of being a bit outwardly gruff and much better adapted to NIL and modern game.

"Time For Moren to move on?" is absolutely the appropriate name for this thread and it matches what has happened to Joe McKeown recently at NW recently who was the best coach in history of program similar to Moren and is retiring after season. As I have said, the future appears bright with the new recruiting coach and recruiting class but that only applies if Moren's heart is still in the job which I do question. It is indeed odd that she seems checked out on bench and uses no timeouts when other team is on a big run. Her and Dolson need to sit down after the season and decide if she is indeed wanting to do this still. If this is all just a bad recruiting year and cleaning up from Linda Sayavongchanh lack of recruiting, then Moren absolutely deserves to stay and give it a shot with these new elite players coming in. If she is burnt out and her heart is not into the modern game and NIL, similar to McKeown than an identical retirement is best path forward. Which one it is needs to be looked into carefully by Dolson and proceed accordingly. As for new coaches, my vote as I will continue to say is to get Shauna Green if we can some how pull her from Illinois as most realistic high end candidate who would thrive here and fans would fall in love with even more so than Moren. If not, a Glen Box reunion is the realistic choice. Again though, it all depends on if Moren wants to continue to do this and she owes it to fans and herself to be honest and decide if her heart is still in it.

Moren def sounded apathetic in postgame presser. Most significant things she said was Z's latest injury is to other foot but didn't elaborate on much else regarding it or give timeline. If Moren is indeed ready to call its quits, my first call would actually be to Shauna Green at Illinois of halfway realistic candidates and see if you can entice her to move a state over. She is special and best coach in league in my mind. Assuming Green declines though, Box would def me my next call and probably most realistic candidate.

I am now officially much more concerned about state of program. While help is seemingly on the way with the elite recruits next year, roster needs a major scrub. Outside Lenee, Maya, and Navaeh all these players need to be replaced with Big Ten level ones which I think three of the incoming class very much are, but as we see newcomers take time. Based on previous life experiences I kind of think (although guessing) that one of two things or a combination of both is in play. I had an employee who was elite for years but was burnt out and wanted to retire. I talked them into staying and were about 50% of themselves after that and retired a yr later. Based on Moren's comments about retirement, have to wonder if she did not bring up and Dolson talked her out of it and she is now coaching at 50% effort, which based on her in game timeouts and motivation looks that way. However, we may have gotten to her contemplating retirement based on last year and a situation with my neighbors growing up. Our neighbors always bragged about how perfect their relationship was and that they never fought. A few years later they had a seemingly minor fight and the next thing you know they were divorced within a couple of months as they had no idea how to handle conflict. Have to wonder if Moren had such a great great group of girls for the last decade both on and off the court, that were so low maintenance, that when conflict hit last year she had no idea how to handle it and immediately wanted to walk away having never dealt with it in her career. Moren and Dolson need to sit down in offseason and formulate a plan for future and Moren needs to decide if she still wants to do this. Seemingly things should be better going forward given recruiting surge past couple of years but only if Moren's heart is 100% in it.

That was one paragraph without context of whole article. She also said her passion is still there. I read this article as well and if you take the whole thing at face value, she is still very into this job. This year she is paying for her recruiting sins of past. Not a passion issue. As the cupboard refills with elite recruiting again, winning is very likely.

Completely agree on most of this and saying DeVries messed up bringing in Bailey and this year is a disappointment is completely fair. However, saying DeVries is over his head or incompetent when he clearly was able to make things work elsewhere is ridiculous. To want to fire him after one year and already ponder this is also asinine. He clearly made some recruiting errors and how he addresses this in offseason will say a lot. In this age of college sports a team can go from rags to riches in one season. In general, not wanting to support this years team and go all in, I am completely on board with. What I am not on board with and is unique to our fan base, is being completely unwilling to support solid but not elite teams when it comes to any IU sport and this is absolutely the case. Its why resources are lower here and right now a lot of those are rightly going to football. For people on here who want success in both, I recommend not dropping your football tickets the first time Cig wins eight or nine games. Would not happen anywhere else but very likely to here based on past precedent unfortunately.

Again, thank you for proving my point that we have one of the most fair-weather and reactionary fan bases out there. I get people are impatient with the program for past screw ups, but this is mostly not DeVries' fault. DeVries absolutely screwed up with bringing in Bailey and with an adequate center this is an obvious tournament team. How he addresses this problem will tell us a lot about if he has the chops to compete at this level. I have said I am not convinced this is a coaching issue anymore but a resource issue of robbing Peter to pay Paul with football and its worked out beautifully in the sense it got football to a ceiling basketball has not seen in at least 30 years. If we want both programs funded at a high level, we need better resources and more money. A big part of that is adding 20,000 seats to football and the fans showing they won't bail at the first eight win season as has happened far to many times across IU athletics in similar scenarios. Until our casual fans (and I don't mean the loyal ones who see things through thick and thin) decide to support winning teams at a high level and not just elite teams, resource issues will continue and right now all the money we do have is rightly in football. DeVries is not an elite coach like Cig but will be as good as the players and resources he is given. Unlike Archie or Woodson who couldn't coach even a good team, DeVries will win at exactly the level his talent gives him. He was already turning around West Virginia and can do same here if given the proper support. If not he will be the latest of a long line of coaching failures. Its that simple.

You guys have got to stop. This team is in a transition year and has the best recruiting class in program history coming in and the freshmen will be good if we are patient. To say you are tuning out this year is totally fair and I have mostly done same. However, to say Moren needs to go or retire over one bad year when help is clearly on the way is why we have one of the most fair weather fan bases ever. I get people being upset, but our fan base has to stop making grand program declarations and start supporting teams that are outside the top-five of their given sport in higher numbers. Moren absolutely screwed up her recruiting when she was winning. However, she has acknowledged that and made changes. However, this season is the unfortunate payoff of her past errors.

At home it wont be. Road game will be close and could go either way but PU is a dumpster fire. We have had close games at Mackey even with some of the good teams.

Purdue shouldn't be a problem to beat for IU this yr. Their situation makes IU look like awesome. People just need patience and not make grand program declarations when a bad hire was made that has since been corrected in your lead recruiter. It just takes a minute to dig out of a hole that was self created. Hole never should have been created, but since it has, it takes time to see if it works and I think it well could. People don't realize how bad the five teams at the league are compared to IU and team has six games against them. That should be 4-5 wins minimum and then 1-2 more they steal. While 6-12 and 16-14 is not ideal, its not a death to the program and very similar to Moren's first yr before taking off. Reinforcements are coming and I think the body of work will lead to decent portal additions. Recruits look at the whole picture. Not one bad year that has been created and is on way to being corrected. These stadiums being less full after a 20-13 tourney season and a couple bad losses, proves my point that we have one of the most fair weather fan bases in the country. Its not everyone and some are very loyal. However, a higher percentage than most (including a few on this board), are much more willing to run away at first sign of trouble than is typical in a normal fan base. I am amongst the first to be critical when things are clearly an issue. If Coach Sy was still employed I would be at front of line of criticism. However, I also have the capacity to see the whole situation and not make declarations at first sign of trouble and try to identify the issue as a whole.

I would say Over Under 5 given MSU's propensity to play to its competition against even worst squads.

Here's the thing. The Spartans play to the level of their competition. They have some top wins, but losses at Wisconsin and were taken to the wire at home by Rutgers and both are arguably worse than IU. This will likely be the last close game for a while simply because MSU plays to their opposition regardless of if they are struggling or elite. While this is the game that should be written off in theory based on talent and performance, MSU's mercurial nature could well give IU a better chance in this one until any opposition before Purdue. If we get top-level Sparty this one will be really ugly against the Hoosiers. However, based on recent results, this is far from a guarantee

Its simple. Recruiting is as strong as your coaches. Glenn Box was a great recruiter who got us all those top players like Holmes and Berger. Sayavongchanh was awful and was fired for not doing her job recruiting and now they brought in the right guy who can do the role well again, hence the top recruits again. This is not program instability. This is losing an elite employee to a promotion in Box who got a head coaching job and then making a bad hire to replace him which had to be corrected a couple years later. This is a normal thing that happens in successful programs across the board. If Tom Allen had been willing to fire Darren Hiller he may still be here and having 6-8 win success he did when DeBoer was here. People can make bad hires, but its whether you get rid of them at clear signs of failure and move past personal affection (as Moren did with coach Sy and Jeff Mercer did with Dustin Glant) that defines if you are a good coach. Allen made a problematic hire that he doubled down on and killed program and got himself fired as a result. Mercer and Moren made problematic assistant hires that hurt program and then made them move on when it clearly wasn't working. That's the strength of a good leader Allen lacked in same scenario.

We were not 'outbid' for Yarden. She wanted to be on a winning team in her final year, and it looks to be a sound decision given the rebuild IU is undertaking. See above. Moren absolutely deserves blame for program being where it is at. However, NIL is much better now and you can't change the past. We are temporarily paying for her being to slow to adjust but has now. Things should dramatically improve now, but it will take patience and an understanding that this is going to be rough this season. Moren dug us into this hole and deserves to be ridiculed for getting us here, but is on way to digging us back out now.

Geesh. Society is impatient. Let's just throw the best coach in program history overboard after she has made the necessary adjustments and a few bad games. It's true, this program was headed into the dumpster if things had continued how they were. However, Moren had a come-to-Jesus moment last year and has adjusted with better NIL and recruiting much better now. She just replaced her failing recruiting coach with a top-notch one, and it shows. Caffey and Makalusky are future studs, but being asked to do way too much as frosh. For the first time since Yarden, you can clearly envision this pair as high-end starters down the road. Next year's recruits are even higher in the rankings. Oh, and they just had their first top-20 player visit recently. The new recruiting coach is doing exactly what he was supposed to do, and if everyone is patient, things will improve drastically over the next couple of seasons. This season is going to be rough, much like Moren's first one with 4-5 conference wins. However, as reboot part 2 goes on, things should get back to winning quickly, just as happened after her first season with the program. We are temporarily paying for Moren's lack of adjustment to the modern game and recruiting. We can absolutely blame her for being slow on the uptake that temporarily has the team in this position, but to her credit, she realized she was driving the program off the tracks. Now that things appear headed in the right direction again, let's give this a yr and I think everyone will be happy with the product. Outside of Shay, everyone is an underclassman with tons of potential but raw. As they mature and even better recruits come in, this will look much better. Just going to have to be patient and accept this is going to be a really rough year, and the program is paying for the recent past, which can't be changed. However, a brighter tomorrow should be ahead down the road with the changes made.

This thread is a microcosm of our massive issue as a fan base. Any other fan base would not even utter such a thought when they get elite football and understand that is the driver of athletics. We have far to many fans who have decided IU basketball is only team they can support and all others IU teams are irrelevant while others refuse to support any IU squad that is outside top-5. We will never sustain success anywhere with this attitude and will continue to have 3-5 yr up cycles across every sport followed by not sustaining winning. Its awful early to be down on DeVries already (although I get the frustration here). However, until our so-called fans decide IU sports is more than just men's basketball and it is OK to support good non-elite teams in other sports we will not sustain healthy success an an athletic department. Supporting the other 23 sports is a necessity (especially football) or no sport will succeed including men's basketball as everyone seems to want. To not sell out volleyball for NCAA Tournament in tiny stadium and have no interest in sport by many, losing thousands of season ticket holders over a 20-13 NCAA year in women's basketball, amongst other things will never lead to success here. Everyone is entitled to support what they want, but just realize that 'basketball is only important sport' attitude will never lead to success anywhere consistently at IU including in basketball. Just wait till we have our first 8 win football season next year and lose thousands of season ticket holders. If attitude doesn't change this will happen.

If anyone thought Kadlecova was in the future plans, they were sorely mistaken. Maya has already been better than Kadlecova ever was since moving into lineup. Wonder if losing her playing time to Maya caused her to be a locker room problem (just speculating and have no inside info) and Moren wanted it rooted out very quickly after last yr. The fact that she is going to play 'professional basketball' tells me she probably thought she was better than she is and deserved more playing time and told Moren to 'play her more or I want off team' if I read between lines. Totally speculating though.

Im also high on Phoenix and think she has future as borderline starter or energy person off bench. The other portal players are unlikely to crack lineup at any point and there is a reason they were late adds with little fanfare rather than early adds and fighting off other teams as happened with Z and Phoenix.

Clearly you are not up on program and its 'Ciezki'. You are correct Moren was slow to adapt to NIL and her recruiting coach Linda Sayavongchanh was totally ineffective recruiting hence the talent fall off you are seeing IU is paying for at moment. However, losing Garzon opened an eye up to Moren that she needed NIL and was not recruiting well. Moren brought in a new recruiting coach Colsten Thompson who recruited top players at Alabama and has already made his mark at IU. Already the two freshman this year in Maya Makalusky and Nevaeh Caffey are showing much more promise then any newcomers since Mackenzie Holmes (but still raw) and are the highest ranked recruits in program history. Next years class has two higher ranked recruits then this yr even and is no. 6 nationally. It could well be rough this year due to past failures, but help is on the way and the future should be bright with correct adjustments made now.

An FYI: Southwest just launched two special non-stops from Indy to LAX for Rose Bowl going out on 12/31 and returning on 1/2. They are not cheap at $1300 dollars a ticket and only premium pricing fares offered but it brings the number of nonstops for those days to 5. It generally is only two per day total on a normal day with one on American and one on Delta. However, American added an extra flight to their regular one and Southwest launched two specials for the game on the route they don't normally fly (and note it is $400 less than the $1700 the other carriers are charging).

The comment was for two years down the road. I would hope the portal class for 2026 and 2027 has not been finished, nor has the 2027 recruiting class. The 2026 recruiting class is indeed finished, but it is the best in program history and sixth nationally, with the two highest-ranked recruits in program history. It is indeed very early for the 2026 and 2027 seasons, with a lot of great pieces, but still roster spots to fill, just as I said.

You are assuming this is the end of the recruiting, and they won't get more elite players in the portal and recruiting. I would agree if those are the only players IU was getting and this was the end of the roster, but let's see what else they have. This is a great start. Declaring them a national title contender with just this is indeed a bit much but a great start.

The fact that he jumped at the first opportunity to get out of town tells me he knew his status in his current job was tenuous.

Glant is gone, finally! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Best thing for the program ever!