Aaron

When evaluating a coach, the question needs to be 'would another coach do better with the current roster'. With Woodson and Archie the question was an unequivocal yes. With DeVries so far I think the answer is no with this group of players. With that said, it is up to DeVries to build a roster that can compete in this league. I don't want to hear 'we were outbid for a player' once portal opens. Given the situation, DeVries needs to identify the players he want and fits this roster and pay whatever it costs to get them here. This offseason will be telling. If DeVries gets who he wants and wins next year, the answer is this roster is just hard to win with. If he struggles in the portal and has another poorly constructed roster, than the answer is all the money is being diverted to football and the program doesn't have the resources it needs. If he gets a well constructed roster and still struggles it means another bad coach was hired. Offseason will be telling.

This was inevitable. To me the big question is if the team wins nine games and goes to a nice bowl can they sell out season tickets for 2027. As I have talked about so many times, our fans can be more frontrunning than most. I hope the corner has been turned here and this is a yearly occurrence now. For everyone who wants to continue being good at all sports, the way to do this is to fill your football stadium all the time so it can be expanded. We are in a huge test if this is another IU sport where fans are frontrunners swept up in the euphoria and will give up the second the team is not elite, or a corner has been turned. Hope its the latter. Fear the former.

The strong close to this year is why you don't throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to Moren and the program. I think we can all agree that most of the season was not up to standard, but the future appears bright with the personnel and young players developing down the stretch. Society has no patience and is willing to throw people out at the first sign of trouble without evaluating the past or whole situation and that bleeds into sports. That is people's right to do but it puts a lot of pressure on the program and our world.

This weekend so far is why I refuse to solely blame pitching and more the system as a whole. While pitching is the biggest culprit, the offense also cost you Friday's game and has far to many times when it goes cold similar to IU basketball's three point shooting coming and going. The talent is there, but there are so many little problems right now holding the team back from being anything more than mediocre. It starts with pitching, but the offenses ability to go cold at the wrong times and not hit off-speed pitching, plus the defensive errors, show it is a lot of small issues that are easily fixable but does not seem to be happening.

100%. I said as well they should make NCAA Tourney almost every year and be San Diego St of baseball for Big Ten. We are in complete agreement. Misunderstood what you meant.

No coach in the north is getting you to a CWS regularly. There is a reason IU and Michigan are only two Big Ten teams to make it this century. The Big Ten in baseball is not the Big Ten of other sports. It is basically the Mountain West as the equivalent of the best Mid-Major in the country. Now with that said, IU should be the equivalent of what San Diego State basketball is to the Mountain West and should be the league winner and get an NCAA bid most years. Mercer definitely is very hit or miss right now and the execution in timely hitting and pitching and defense is lacking. The recruiting is top notch and players are developing into pros. However, the little things that come with winning seem to be missing the last 2-3 years, especially on the mound. I agree the program is in a rut and it clearly goes beyond changing the pitching coach like they did this year. So far the same issues are happening still. Lets make sure though we understand what realistic expectations are. Mercer is not meeting them right now and it has nothing to do with getting to the CWS which is a totally unrealistic expectation for a Big Ten team more than once every decade or two.

Why is everyone so convinced May at IU=May at Michigan when its been well documented the Wolverine have the very top NIL. Its very possible May is that good and he would have IU number one here. Its also very possible If May were here and DeVries at Michigan, Devries would have the Wolverines as a one seed and May has the Hoosiers a nine seed based on program infrastructure. Its a fun hypothetical to think about, but don't automatically assume its a one for one trade where May at Michigan=May here at IU, as many of our fans seem to assume.

In a vacuum, getting swept by the best team you will play all year that could well be dogpiling in Omaha with a national title is not a big deal. However, expanding beyond the vacuum is where we have issues. The pitching actually was fairly encouraging and I like a lot of the guys who threw and if you can stretch out the first two weekend guys, you could well be on to something. The problem is though the continued keystone cops defense and zero attention to detail the last few years. The recruiting is good and in many ways the players are developing. However, the chemistry feels very off and the little things and fundamentals are not there. That last throw was either showboating, nervousness, or more sinister intentional. None of those explanations speak well to a strong program culture. Right now interest in the program is at its lowest point since before Tracy Smith got here. Some of that is our front running fans I complain about. However, the product is a bit mediocre. I think Mercer has done a lot well and gets some undue criticism. He deserves the year to try to make this work (especially since Glant is not with program anymore), but that type of play is one that can wreck a season. If things go poorly and the undiscipline continues, its probably best both parties go their separate way. I hate it for Mercer since he has done so much well. However, at some point its up to him to build a culture and right now that doesn't necessarily appear to be there.

I watched some of the game and the pitching was actually quite good for the most part. Neubeck's performance was encouraging as lead pitcher and that's the toughest opponent he will see all yr. Rivera was bad in the 5th inning, but the big six run sixth inning happened partly because of shoddy defense that started with an error at SS and a lost ball in the sun that landed on a popup to LF. If neither of those happen its a clean inning. Either way though to much wildness at least today to be relied on in high leverage spots if his hit batters and wild pitches continue. NC is by far the best team IU will see all year and a national championship contender. Outside of the keystone cops defense in the 6th inning, pretty much went toe to toe with them.

The big worry about Z is her health. She has the talent to be a relatively high level starting center in this league, but only if she can stay on the court. This is now three knee/leg issues in two seasons and none of them were from any obvious fall or something that should cause weeks of absences. Mack had the same issue with her knee cap keeping her out at times, but the difference was it was one injury that kept popping up and her availability was still way more often than not. Also, its much easier to wait out injuries on a generational player like Holmes vs. Z who is developing into something solid down low but not elite. IU needs to figure out if Z will be available enough to be a worthwhile investment. She is a starting center in this league talent wise, but only if she can be available. Zoe Jackson who is redshirting, has the talent potentially but is a complete unknown. If she has the skills of Z and can stay available that's your answer. If not, and Z can't stay healthy, got to go get a starting level player in portal or recruiting as Moren's system relies on it. The games Z has played is when IU has been competitive against the top teams. Without her, no chance.

2012 actually. 2011-2012 the team was 1-19 and lost most games by 20+ including Purdue at home. In 2013 Jasmine McGee hit a mid-range buzzer beater to win 62-61 as one of two Big Ten wins that season, and the Hoosiers have not lost to Purdue in Assembly Hall since after rarely winning prior to that.

Hopefully Florida Atlantic is just that good again. Clearly IU is not a national championship team (which we already knew), but beating Ohio State shows this could be a tourney squad again. The win over the Buckeyes is an extreme positive after the negative against FAU. The other two are must dominates which they did, but says very little about ceiling or floor.

It looks like Dempsey Resich is no. 66 nationally per the article about the class. As it clearly states in said article that is one of the top players to even make it to college (I would have to guess maybe second or third). There is no guarantee he actually makes it to campus, but even getting someone in top-100 to sign at this days and age says how good Yeagley is. The fact that the no. 66 player is one of the few and amongst the highest of the top-100 to maybe make it to campus is the crux of the issue and why game is in such trouble.

Yes, Top Drawer posts it, but its premium content and I don't subscribe to it. I agree and like the unlimited subs. However, it def makes game different. Players would overlook that though if they went to year round model and were not playing every three days as they do now. This is the crux of the issue and everyone from US Soccer to Todd Yeagley to other top coaches has told the NCAA to fix it but so far they have not considered the sport high priority enough to do anything. As a result you are in situation now with second tier Americans and international players with very low quality game very few follow.

Please no complaints if softball has a rebuilding year after the three of the best seasons in program history where they made three straight NCAA Tournaments after just seven in first 50 yrs before that. They lost a lot and are very young and could well have growing pains with only Avery Parker and Aly VanBrandt returning as major contributors. Also, one game and Florida Atlantic has been elite the last two years. Hopefully this goes well overall, but definitely could be a slight step back from what team has been recently.

Pennsylvania region which is one of the better prospects who actually make it to college. Someone in the top-9 in country doesn't go to college and straight to MLS or academies. Heck even most of the top the top-100 players in America overall skip college for academies and then pros similar to Europe. IU gets the best prospects of what's left, but that's way down the list and until the game goes to a school year long model as Yeagley and most coaches want, the best talent is going nowhere near college. Rules are quite different for most part then other leagues in world with unlimited subs and games every couple days. Until NCAA fixes this and listens to US soccer federation and its best coaches, the game will continue to be fairly low quality and not the option for the best players. To be clear, IU has done nothing wrong and Yeagley has made the best of a terrible situation the NCAA has caused, but reality is the game is borderline unwatchable right now with second tier prospects. Championship is in the middle of every major sport no one notices in the freezing cold and all you have to do basically is qualify for NCAA Tournament and you have chance to win it all as Washington and Vermont has done last two yrs as teams who barely got in. Regular season is only relevant to qualify at this point. NCAA doesn't care and has made a mess of college soccer, but having an elite program is worth very little anymore through no fault of IU's. They are doing best they can with dozens of issues around them they didn't create.

Probably fairly lateral but with right promises and resources, moving to a similar school two hours away would be easy for her if interested. Whether they can get her is another question but she would be my dream hire of any halfway realistic candidates.

She has turned an Illinois program around that was worse than IU into a solid team. She plays with a system that includes slashing/driving athletic guards that fit the modern game really well. Her press conferences are some of the most intelligent and technically sound out there. She has a lot of Moren's values, but is a much softer version of her (in a good way) and someone who would instantly become beloved as the face of the program. Green also seems like a super nice person. Moren is an excellent coach and a great face of the program, but has a gruff side to her that is entirely absent from Green's personality. Basically she is everything Moren is without the two small flaws of being a bit outwardly gruff and much better adapted to NIL and modern game.

"Time For Moren to move on?" is absolutely the appropriate name for this thread and it matches what has happened to Joe McKeown recently at NW recently who was the best coach in history of program similar to Moren and is retiring after season. As I have said, the future appears bright with the new recruiting coach and recruiting class but that only applies if Moren's heart is still in the job which I do question. It is indeed odd that she seems checked out on bench and uses no timeouts when other team is on a big run. Her and Dolson need to sit down after the season and decide if she is indeed wanting to do this still. If this is all just a bad recruiting year and cleaning up from Linda Sayavongchanh lack of recruiting, then Moren absolutely deserves to stay and give it a shot with these new elite players coming in. If she is burnt out and her heart is not into the modern game and NIL, similar to McKeown than an identical retirement is best path forward. Which one it is needs to be looked into carefully by Dolson and proceed accordingly. As for new coaches, my vote as I will continue to say is to get Shauna Green if we can some how pull her from Illinois as most realistic high end candidate who would thrive here and fans would fall in love with even more so than Moren. If not, a Glen Box reunion is the realistic choice. Again though, it all depends on if Moren wants to continue to do this and she owes it to fans and herself to be honest and decide if her heart is still in it.

Moren def sounded apathetic in postgame presser. Most significant things she said was Z's latest injury is to other foot but didn't elaborate on much else regarding it or give timeline. If Moren is indeed ready to call its quits, my first call would actually be to Shauna Green at Illinois of halfway realistic candidates and see if you can entice her to move a state over. She is special and best coach in league in my mind. Assuming Green declines though, Box would def me my next call and probably most realistic candidate.

I am now officially much more concerned about state of program. While help is seemingly on the way with the elite recruits next year, roster needs a major scrub. Outside Lenee, Maya, and Navaeh all these players need to be replaced with Big Ten level ones which I think three of the incoming class very much are, but as we see newcomers take time. Based on previous life experiences I kind of think (although guessing) that one of two things or a combination of both is in play. I had an employee who was elite for years but was burnt out and wanted to retire. I talked them into staying and were about 50% of themselves after that and retired a yr later. Based on Moren's comments about retirement, have to wonder if she did not bring up and Dolson talked her out of it and she is now coaching at 50% effort, which based on her in game timeouts and motivation looks that way. However, we may have gotten to her contemplating retirement based on last year and a situation with my neighbors growing up. Our neighbors always bragged about how perfect their relationship was and that they never fought. A few years later they had a seemingly minor fight and the next thing you know they were divorced within a couple of months as they had no idea how to handle conflict. Have to wonder if Moren had such a great great group of girls for the last decade both on and off the court, that were so low maintenance, that when conflict hit last year she had no idea how to handle it and immediately wanted to walk away having never dealt with it in her career. Moren and Dolson need to sit down in offseason and formulate a plan for future and Moren needs to decide if she still wants to do this. Seemingly things should be better going forward given recruiting surge past couple of years but only if Moren's heart is 100% in it.

That was one paragraph without context of whole article. She also said her passion is still there. I read this article as well and if you take the whole thing at face value, she is still very into this job. This year she is paying for her recruiting sins of past. Not a passion issue. As the cupboard refills with elite recruiting again, winning is very likely.

Completely agree on most of this and saying DeVries messed up bringing in Bailey and this year is a disappointment is completely fair. However, saying DeVries is over his head or incompetent when he clearly was able to make things work elsewhere is ridiculous. To want to fire him after one year and already ponder this is also asinine. He clearly made some recruiting errors and how he addresses this in offseason will say a lot. In this age of college sports a team can go from rags to riches in one season. In general, not wanting to support this years team and go all in, I am completely on board with. What I am not on board with and is unique to our fan base, is being completely unwilling to support solid but not elite teams when it comes to any IU sport and this is absolutely the case. Its why resources are lower here and right now a lot of those are rightly going to football. For people on here who want success in both, I recommend not dropping your football tickets the first time Cig wins eight or nine games. Would not happen anywhere else but very likely to here based on past precedent unfortunately.

Again, thank you for proving my point that we have one of the most fair-weather and reactionary fan bases out there. I get people are impatient with the program for past screw ups, but this is mostly not DeVries' fault. DeVries absolutely screwed up with bringing in Bailey and with an adequate center this is an obvious tournament team. How he addresses this problem will tell us a lot about if he has the chops to compete at this level. I have said I am not convinced this is a coaching issue anymore but a resource issue of robbing Peter to pay Paul with football and its worked out beautifully in the sense it got football to a ceiling basketball has not seen in at least 30 years. If we want both programs funded at a high level, we need better resources and more money. A big part of that is adding 20,000 seats to football and the fans showing they won't bail at the first eight win season as has happened far to many times across IU athletics in similar scenarios. Until our casual fans (and I don't mean the loyal ones who see things through thick and thin) decide to support winning teams at a high level and not just elite teams, resource issues will continue and right now all the money we do have is rightly in football. DeVries is not an elite coach like Cig but will be as good as the players and resources he is given. Unlike Archie or Woodson who couldn't coach even a good team, DeVries will win at exactly the level his talent gives him. He was already turning around West Virginia and can do same here if given the proper support. If not he will be the latest of a long line of coaching failures. Its that simple.

You guys have got to stop. This team is in a transition year and has the best recruiting class in program history coming in and the freshmen will be good if we are patient. To say you are tuning out this year is totally fair and I have mostly done same. However, to say Moren needs to go or retire over one bad year when help is clearly on the way is why we have one of the most fair weather fan bases ever. I get people being upset, but our fan base has to stop making grand program declarations and start supporting teams that are outside the top-five of their given sport in higher numbers. Moren absolutely screwed up her recruiting when she was winning. However, she has acknowledged that and made changes. However, this season is the unfortunate payoff of her past errors.