Old Friend

As much as I love the toughness/defensive mentality; and was around it through the Knight years; his teams also led the Big Ten in scoring almost every year, despite what his roster looked like. Indiana can't score in the half court. We don't even GET good shots much of the time, and it seems kids who make mistake after mistake aren't held accountable; and kids who should be more ready to contribute by now.....aren't. If Chris Holtmann didn't have Ohio State at 16-7, I might be more willing to "be patient," but I don't think it's too much to ask for a coach to get his team to compete at a pretty high level in year 2. I do understand it can take time; but with Morgan, Davis, Durham, and Green....we had 4 returning players who, when new faces were also added, should - in my mind - be better than losing 9 of 10 games, three of them against Nebraska, Rutgers, and Northwestern; plus a very beatable Ohio State team at home. We win those 4? We're 17-7 and I don't think anyone's upset. But lose all of them for myriad reasons, and the natives are rightfully restless. Offense doesn't move much; some defensive players are lazy and out of position; and I don't see coaching. In fact, I see at least one assistant who basically stands with his hands in his pockets. I think there are problems. I wish I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and a great direction; but right now, I just don't. I'm willing to hold off judgement for a couple of seasons, but next season should really begin to show growth, regardless of the roster. We'll have enough players to compete and win more than we are now.

Love Durham and yes he has developed nicely. Same w Deron. I don't agree on DeVonte, but that's another discussion. Whole thing's a crap shoot until we see what Archie does between now and 2021, I'd say. I'm 100% with you if the talent stays for a couple of years or if we get the guys who can dominate a season like Carmelo Anthony did or like Zion Williamson is doing. And yeah, I get the Romeo thing, too. I've just been upset with what looks to be a separation from what's important to the development of Indiana University Men's Basketball to what's important to Romeo Langford. You know I agree with recruiting in state, but you still have to get the right kids. Not every kid fits.

But Tim Thomas is the only one and done Villanova's ever had. I'm with you if you're telling me Brooks will stay for a couple of years...which is why I mentioned that above. Villanova isn't doing it with one and done's....they're doing it with the formula I referenced above and I absolutely agree with it. I wanted Romeo as much as anyone and wish him nothing but the best. That said, he's not necessarily shown interest in being part of any solution or building a program. I think he wanted an Adidas school and wanted to stay close to home. He's a brand. That's not working at Indiana. No, he wasn't going to fix the problem in one year. But if he stayed for 2? He sure helps. Edit : It would also help tremendously if Archie became better at player development. Wright is exceptional at that.

I want the best players available if they're going to be here more than one year. One year rentals, regardless of talent aren't going to build this or any program in a sustainable way. It's why Tom Crean's Big Ten champions were followed by 8th and 10th place finishes. Do you think Anthony Edwards will make Georgia a successful program? Do you think Georgia will win the SEC with him or make a deep run in the NCAA tournament? If we get Brooks AND a bunch of others like Duke did this season? Yeah...I see that argument. But him by himself as a one and done? I don't see that as helping anything as a program. You have to build consistent teams....not stockpile talent that doesn't fit together as a team.

Villanova IS the best example, but not for the reasons you think. Jay Wright was 52-46 in his first 3 years at Villanova, NIT all 3 seasons and ended one of them with a losing record. He built his team the way he needed it. He didn't just stockpile talent. And he continues to recruit to what he needs over the course of time. Which is my point. Do we need a kid who's priority is his NBA draft prospect? Does that help build a team like Archie needs to build it, or is he just a talented player who really doesn't fit the long term goals of the program? So yeah....Villanova is an excellent example; but we're not talking about the same thing. Wright did the same thing at Hofstra. The formula is there. My question is whether or not Brooks fits that formula and I'm not sure he does. Maybe Nothing is wrong with a kid looking out for his own bets interests. I never said anything was wrong with that. If his priority in choosing a school is how or if it helps his draft prospects, he doesn't fit the culture at Indiana. Or Purdue. He fits just fine at Kentucky. Square peg, round hole. If he wants to play at Indiana and be part of what Archie is trying to build? Great. Bring it on. But I will never believe Indiana is a place for one and done players unless we get 2-3 every year. We have one now. How's it working out? His agenda is different than every other kid on the team. That's a problem, and I know you can see it as clearly as I can We agree absolutely on the fact that Indiana needs to be a place to create mutually beneficial opportunities for kids. But...those opportunities don't necessarily need to be the same opportunities Kentucky offers. I like juniors and seniors. I like experienced teams. Like Iowa. Purdue. Michigan State. Michigan. (and yeah, "experienced" now means kids with 2+ years in a program. I understand that and completely agree with it.) Going back to Villanova...when they won it last season, Brunson was a junior, Bridges a redshirt junior, Paschall a redshirt junior, Booth a redshirt junior, DiVencenzo a redshirt sophomore. You see my point... Brooks, if his priority is his NBA draft prospect will never BE a redshirt sophomore. So he'll never BE part of a solution. He'll be a ship that passes through. Okay....why? Why do we need Brooks? A year ago, you'd likely have told me we "need" Romeo, too. Not working out so well for the reasons stated above. I'd love him if he wants to be part of the solution. But if we're just a necessary stopover on his way to the NBA and he'll never be invested here? We don't need him. You may want him, but I don't see a need at all.

First question...Does Keion fit at Indiana? Second question....do we want another player worried primarily about his draft prospects? Third question....do we want a kid who looks at a season and runs away instead of wanting to be the reason it gets better? I dunno'. I'm sick of Noah Vonleh. Thomas Bryant. Romeo Langford. I want Indiana Hoosiers...not minor league basketball players and a stack of talented players who will never be a team.

Amen.

Knight had told him to stay with (I think) a kid named Bullock from Michigan. No exceptions. Play happens that Lewis could have helped off him to cut off a drive; and Knight got upset. Lewis yells back "you told me not to leave Bullock!" I bet Knight LOVED it.

Agreed.... I can almost understand Smith. Same play over and over again, and his hedge did the job most of the time. OSU's players coming off that ball screen weren't turning the corner and getting vertical; so I'm sure in his 19 year old brain, what he did was exactly what he was supposed to do. Romeo on the other hand was only late because he was out of position. Help defense is on the rim line. Romeo was 3-4 feet away from the rim line, and he actually reacted pretty quickly. He just couldn't get there. That was the problem as I saw it.

I disagree. Sure he should sign autographs. They all should. But not in uniform, laughing with family, 10 minutes after the 9th loss in 10 games and 3rd straight at home. It's a very bad look. Dakich has made the point many times that Indiana is now just like everyone else. This kind of thing is part of that.

If Miles leaves Nebraska, I'd hire him AND Lewis if I were Archie.

Nobody said he shouldn't sign autographs. Not the point. At all. Who cares what fans expect? That's their problem.

I think we are.... game tied at 52,...they took a lead on a dunk by Andre Weston (or whatever his last name is) As I said above, Smith hedged the ball screen like he had the whole game. Romeo was out of position in help side....way too far away from the center line/low spot, and had too much ground to cover in order to get there to take a charge or at least challenge the shot so it wasn't a dunk.

Smith did what he'd been doing the whole game. He hedged the ball screen to cut off the drive. When his man slipped it, he had a clear path to the rim because Romeo was in "help" WAY too far toward his man who was in the corner away from the ball. The point I heard today which I agreed with 100% was you can't have just one 1 and done guy. Agree with your assessment. You have to recruit the 5* in state kids; and Romeo would be just fine if he had better pieces around him and a jump shot. Another point I heard was he scored so many points driving to the hole against teams that had nobody who could stop him, he developed bad habits...which is true. In the NBA, he will have that opportunity again because you can't completely help off perimeter guys, and bigs can draw their guy to at least the foul line. Personally, I'd have liked to see Romeo catch the ball within 15 feet rather than 21-22 feet all the time.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. But....regardless of what entity created it, as long as he's at Indiana, he really needs to either be part of this team and play the role he should play or get on with his life and leave the team. The situation at Indiana right now is unacceptable and it was Romeo out of position on that slipped screen back door cut that won the game for OSU. He was 3-4 feet from where he should have been, and he was too low. He's where he should be, tat dunk never happens. He's not helping anything doing what he did and if he's about Romeo and not Indiana, that kills a locker room and a team's chemistry.

Am I the only one who thinks Bruiser Flint is absolutely worthless? Guy has skirted NCAA trouble a few times and I think all he does is play yes man to Archie and collect a pay check. Was a very mediocre head coach and I just don't know what he brings. At least Schilling has in-state connections or I'd feel the same about him. Who's the "x and o" guy on this staff?

Not the case at all. You guys paint a picture of Dakich that just isn't accurate. He was exactly right about Romeo today. No reason for any player to be out of the locker room...in uniform, laughing with his family 10 minutes after a loss. The autograph hounds can wait. Family will be there. If you give a damn, it doesn't happen the way it did happen.

Thanks. It's more sad to me than anything. More because the university has made a conscious decision that winning isn't important. Guaranteed scholarships, 24 programs, 1 team, kumbaya, BS. I just don't want to be apathetic about Indiana Basketball. I miss caring about it. Go Hoosiers.

That's probably good advice, but I've spent almost 50 years emotionally invested in Indiana Basketball and lowering my expectations seems like losing hope.

That can either be used as a time to crumble or a time for someone to step up and lead. If there was indeed an altercation, I hope it included players being pissed at some of the selfish and ridiculously brainless things that seem to happen game after game.

Indiana's offense is so vanilla right now it's hard to know who they can score more than 30 points against in the half court. They're fine in transition...not as efficient as Crean's teams because they can't shoot as well and a couple of players are turnover prone; but generally not bad. They don't run set plays; they don't run unique or special action very often and when they do, it doesn't generally work well. It's like there's no imagination. No brain on the bench that can draw something up to get Romeo a lane to drive or a mismatch in the post for Morgan.. Something went wrong somewhere. It sounds too simple to blame it on Phinisee going down with injury, but he hasn't been the same since and the team hasn't been the same since. Before the injury, Phinisee shot 44.4% from the floor. Since? 27.1%. Before the injury, he had 42 assists in 11 games....3.8/game. Since? 15 assists in 9 games. 1.7/game. Is it that simple? Probably not. But it's a factor. People point to the Marquette game as the barometer for what Indiana can be. They still only made nine 3's. I know...seems like a million; but it's not like they set records. But...they also had 18 assists (Phinisee had 8) and shot 23 FT's. Morgan and Langford had 23 shots between them. I know Fitzner went off too...that helped. But....Green didn't play. The dichotomy? Louisville. Only made four 3's. Had only 10 assists. Made just one more FG than Louisville who made ELEVEN 3's. The difference? Indiana was aggressive and shot 25 FT's. Today? 7 FT's. Against Rutgers? Just 7 assists. Point being, the problems seem to change. There's not really a consistent numbers problem....there are just consistent problems. Sometimes it's turnovers. Sometimes it's lack of bench productivity. Sometimes it's bad shots or inability to get GOOD shots. Sometimes it's the wrong guys shooting. Sometimes it's lack of movement of players or the ball. Sometimes it's a combination. But they've really only played one complete game against a good team, and that was Marquette. Since then and especially since Central Arkansas....something's just missing. Off. Archie clearly doesn't have the answer, nor do his assistants. I sure don't.

To summarize the thread : Green had no interest in anyone else taking that shot. His selfish, playground mantra got the best of him. Nobody was surprised. Some think we still need him. A couple (me included) disagree. Davis didn't play enough; Smith played too much. Smith and Green took too many shots. Morgan and Durham (who nobody seemed to see today) didn't take enough. And we still don't fit.

AMEN!

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2019/02/06/blackford-phenom-luke-brown-leads-state-scoring-lifts-community-gregg-doyel-indiana-basketball/2779212002/?fbclid=IwAR0UIEXhlmUiwfb4mT1yKliOUOcNK8RCnB1eCVekoIWsO1421fFOyZ3I8Wo For what it's worth, Blackford is currently ranked 136th of 410 schools in Sagarin's computer ranking. Not great, but ahead of Indy Tech, Plymouth, McCutcheon, Vincennes (all 4A schools with some "history") and a whole bunch of other 4A schools. In the video here, he looks just fine getting into the paint; but I'm not sure any school will need him to do that at the next level. I really don't see a downside giving this kid serious consideration. He's only a sophomore...and likely knows exactly what he needs to do to play at the next level.