Old Friend

"I remember where I was when _______________!" Indiana basketball division Mine, 1975 losing to Kentucky in the Elite 8. I was 5 and I was crushed.

"Purdue felt confident?" Who? "John Purdue?"

Experience, physical maturity, health, and the simple numbers game DO matter a little. There's "the story" and then there's "the whole story."

Give it a rest, man. Seriously. You don't have to spin everything so it fits into your bubble. There's enough guys on here who already do that. Nobody heard Chris Beard's name on here until people were pissed about last season, so revisionist history is pretty easy. They were 18-13 this season and Indiana was 20-12. Indiana has improved every season and they're building the team to stay experienced so that kind of dropoff doesn't happen. Maybe it will or maybe it won't, but the overall point doesn't change. I know you missed it and I don't really feel like explaining it. Just stop.

I absolutely agree with you, but again, I look at it and ask myself if the reason is/was Archie or the players. Last season, when Romeo was here I heard more stories about awful chemistry than anything positive. I think it was better this season, but there were times I saw Archie look absolutely exasperated on the sidelines, and I believe as the filter eliminates the warts, things will continue to get better. I have a good friend in local Indianapolis media, also an IU guy and no...it's not Dakich. He made a point to me I thought was great (relative to Crean v Miller). He said Crean recruited with a shotgun, Miller recruits with a rifle. Crean's approach wasn't focused and he couldn't win consistently because he didn't ever try to build teams...he just fired off scholarship offers, and the pieces fell in place a couple of times, followed by bad finishes. Archie hasn't yet seen the top, but I see what he's trying to do and I believe he will be more consistent with the "get old and stay old" approach. Next season is really the first season I think will really show the affects of that, and if he doesn't have good seasons next year and the following? His seat SHOULD be hot. I'm obviously not making any promises, but I do like the plan..and I think there IS a plan. I don't think Crean ever had one, and I also think if you gave Tom Crean truth serum, he'd tell you he's surprised he ever won a conference title. "Holy crap..we WON!" I also like that he (Archie) seems to learn and adapt. Crean never did. Archie's teams have bought into defense. They started throwing the ball inside a lot more later this season, and seeing results because of it. We got better shots across the board and MADE more later in the year. It's little things like that. We were absolutely horrid blitzing ball screens with big guys against Michigan. So...we quit doing it after that. An adjustment. That's the kind of thing I see and it gives me encouragement. We were awful shooting the ball. Nothing Archie can do about that except keep working on it; and I know they did every day. So he now has shooters coming. Indiana GOT good shots much of the time (sometimes not....I know), and no offense gets layups every possession. I see a tougher and more consistent brand under Miller than I did under Crean, and Archie still had three consecutive top 2 finishes in the A-10. He knows what he's doing and he's adapting to Indiana.....I think, anyway.

Here's what makes me smile. If we go back and look, how many of the same posters b*tching now used Chris Beard as an example of "WHO WE COULD HAVE HAD!!!!!!" or who they want? It was a lot. Couple guys on here who can't seem to whine enough nor see any positives regardless of where they look, but here's the facts, boys. https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE Indiana was better than or about equal to Texas Tech in about every category, including record. That "next shiny thing" isn't any shinier than Archie except for one good run a year ago. Indiana will have plenty of those given time. "There aren't many positives so far." Well, not if you aren't looking for them. Recruiting is an obvious one, and to not acknowledge it erases any credibility at all. Only 13 teams in the country had more quad 1 wins than Indiana had this season and there are 353 D1 teams. In that category, Indiana was better than 96.4% of the country. Indiana was 26th in defensive efficiency (see above). Remember when Indiana was known for its defense? We sure won a lot of games then. Indiana was still 65th in offensive efficiency. Great? No. A horrific failure? No. There hasn't been enough positive if you're only concerned about results, and that's cool. Seriously. I get that. I simply said I am taking a different approach and I see (because of that approach) a whole lot more positives than some. A few things have to happen in my opinion. One is to allow Archie's players to "get old" so Indiana can "stay old." Another was to have Green graduate. He said himself in his senior speech he didn't want to learn, and he hijacked at least 5 possessions every game. With so many close games, we can't have that. Green sure was fun when he was "on," but when he wasn't and still tried to be? Yuck. Another is to allow a couple of kids (Phinisee, Hunter, and Thompson in particular) to play healthy and play together. I see a whole lot of positives in those kids, but they've lost so much time to injury, I understand why others may not. Finally, what exactly has or hasn't Archie done which you as a coach would do differently given exactly the same circumstances? No cop out "I'm not paid millions of dollars..." answers. He doesn't make that money to please you. He's paid to represent IU and to win. The speed at which he does the latter is not in his contract, nor is pleasing complainers on a message board. So....what has his coaching truly cost Indiana so far? Last season? "We'd better make the NCAA tournament or else!" Well....we did. And now it's on to the next thing to b*tch about. Sincerely interested in what you believe Archie has cost Indiana, especially this past season.

Nay. Screws up everyone behind them. Sometimes, life ain't fair.

Your last sentence is why at some point, I hope he wakes up and realizes the gifts he has. It is maddening, indeed.

I don't disagree, but I also can't just toss aside the "why" and leave it out of the discussion. I also can't leave out the number of big/good wins. I can't leave out the fact that had it not been for mistakes by Durham and DeVonte Green, Indiana wins against Maryland. Close losses against Illinois, Arkansas, and Wisconsin could have easily been turned around by just another made shot or two. Yes....there were some awful games and some showings with zero heart. 100% agree with that. (also think the kids to blame for that are gone or almost gone. I need to see how Smith responds next year because he could either break out and be 1st team all Big Ten and shock the world, or he could be a pain in the a$$ and drag the team south) But I'm looking at the overall health of the program and not simply raw numbers. And I know, I know....if my aunt had onions, she'd be my uncle and we don't accept moral victories...that's absolutely right. It's been said here and I agree and have said myself, next season's a big one. I don't believe we have one thing to worry about, and I saw ESPN's pre-season "way too early" top 25 poll, and Indiana had discussion. I completely believe Indiana will win 23-25 games next season, and I also think the recruiting pipeline is very healthy. I guess it's fair to say I'm not someone who's nervous about whether or not next season will be one we're all happy with. I see things going in a good direction.

Really getting tired of blind negativity that doesn't acknowledge what actually happened.

Back to basketball and the explosive discussion.... Here's his record at IU and KenPom ratings year over year. It is certainly not where any of us want it yet, but to deny the progress and trend in the right direction is intellectually dishonest. Here you go : https://twitter.com/cdrummond97/status/1242224608352153602?s=20

Wait, we're now discussing the peril of losing Clifton Moore???? Good Lord, WHEN WILL THIS HELL END!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!?!!

1) The blitzing of ball screens by our bigs was the absolute worst. Michigan, with a rookie coach, just abused that. I was really upset about that as well, and completely agree with you. Very happy that adjustment was made, but disappointed that it had to be. 2) We are getting plenty of perimeter help. Leal can flat stroke it. Lander is a really solid shooter. Geronimo can shoot it. And I'm also betting Phinisee, Franklin, and especially Hunter really show their ability to shoot it as well. That Hunter has 3 more years left excites the hell out of me. Did you know Indiana was actually 12 made three's away from being in the top 100 in the country by %? I saw that the other day and it floored me. 3) Missed shots were a huge problem all season. Good Lord, had Indiana made just a few of them, the record would have been 3-4 games better at least. Sometimes the eyeball test is different than the numbers, and I think that's the case here. In any case, the team has improved every year under Archie and recruiting is just fine. I'm bullish, even if we're not "there" yet.

I've consistently said when Archie's recruits are upper classmen, it's reasonable to expect "winning," but how is that defined? You define it with the record you indicated above, and I don't think that's unfair. I also don't think it tells the whole story. It doesn't show, for example that Indiana beat Florida State, which ended up being the best win in the Big Ten this season for ANY team. It doesn't show that Indiana basically took a crap in a few games (Arkansas, Rutgers, both Purdue games, and the end of the Maryland and Illinois games as examples) which easily could have turned that record from 20-12/ 9-11 to at least 23-9 / 11-9 and a finish at 5th/6th place or so. I think that would have been a reasonable ceiling for this particular team. It doesn't show Indiana as being ranked #34 in Sagarin or since December 3rd having the #1 toughest schedule in the country. It doesn't take into account the 8 wins vs that Sagarin top 50 teams. Only 13 teams in the country had more. It also doesn't take into account that senior you mentioned and his robbing his team of at least 5 possessions EVERY damned game. And he did. Inarguably. Next year and the year following will tell the story, as will the 2021 recruiting class. I think Indiana is a hell of a lot closer than their final record indicated, but if "you are who your record says you are," then I can see the other side of that argument.

I hope untrue re: Franklin. He's got a nice future at Indiana if he stays. Would be a shame to lose anybody from the freshman or soph classes who didn't play as much so DeVonte could. That would be the ultimate in cutting off our nose to spite our face.

This just makes me laugh. Whatever, man. If you're that in need of validation, I'm the wrong guy, You wrote it. "Some people." Did that mean you? Did it not mean you? NOW you're saying it didn't. Okay. Fine. Whatever. But I told you what I responded to and no....it wasn't the wrong post. Don't need help, but thanks anyway.

There is just so much here.... 1) Saying college basketball as a whole is down is a pathetic excuse. Parity does not mean it's down. There's a reason Dayton, San Diego State, Baylor, etc are having success, and it's because there are WAY more really good players now. The field has been leveled to an enormous degree and to deny that says only that you have no idea what you're talking about. You really think the number of lesser-known programs is because college basketball is down? That's just ignorant. 2) The product on the floor matters, but because of the way basketball is played now, it will never look as pretty as it used to look. Defense is far more an emphasis than it used to be, officials allow more contact, and quicker, longer players are closing to shooters now. North Carolina was awful this season. Florida State (who we beat) just plays players in waves and always wins ugly. Except for games against bad teams, tell me who "wins pretty" in college basketball now, and simply "making shots" doesn't count. I'll hang up and listen. 3) Indiana was ranked #26 in defensive efficiency, and had as many quad one (which means solid) wins as almost any team in the country. You're defining "good basketball" by what, exactly? My initial post on the matter said the problems were basically attributable to kids Archie didn't recruit, and one in particular. That player has now graduated, and you know exactly what I'm talking about. He, by himself was responsible for "bad basketball," but why do I think when he was making shots, that is the rare occasion you're speaking of? 4) When did anybody say "we're Rutgers?" What point are you trying to make, here? You seem to have an understanding of this situation like old people drive at night. There's no perspective or peripheral vision at all. We get it. You're negative and upset that Indiana hasn't won yet to satisfy your "right now or else" millennial mentality. That's obvious. But you're not paying attention to what's really happening in favor of the most elementary approach you can possibly take. We all get THAT, too.

You wrote this : That is some people's fear. So...I asked. Nope....I responded to the word "fear." And asked "what's the fear?"

This should make you curmudgeons feel better. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2020/03/19/new-indiana-ad-scott-dolson-familiarity-iu-athletics-key-reason-appointment-fred-glass-indiana/2877101001/

Okay...help me. What are you afraid of? Seriously. Making a coaching change will not...I repeat will NOT magically make Indiana basketball a national champion. Any coach will need to build, just like Archie is building. Indiana has improved every year under Archie. He HAS had injury problems, and the roster he was left by Crean was garbage. Sorry, but it was. The kids he specifically recruited are nos sophomores. He even jettisoned one (Forrester) who wasn't going to fit. The caliber of player he's attracting is and has been solid. What are you afraid of? What's your fear? If all you're doing is judging the final results without looking at the true picture, it's going to look far different than what it is in reality. We have seen consistent material improvement on the basketball floor, even if the results we all want aren't there yet. The improvement and direction ARE there. I don't understand "fear."

I actually read a physical paper!!!!!.....In sports section today, though

Make no mistake, Archie was told who to keep. He did not choose who to keep. I agree next year is an important year, but nevertheless, Indiana made the tournament this season, and perhaps could have won a game or two. Next season, I don't think a top 3-4 finish in the Big Ten's unreasonable at all. NCAA Tournament success is pretty subjective, so I don't place my expectations there unless we dramatically under perform. If Indiana can become "in the conversation" on top of the Big Ten on a consistent basis, everything else will take care of itself. This season Indiana had no bad losses and a bunch of big wins. Indiana DID win. Just not yet to old standards. The curve is on the way up...

It is not an absolutely awful hire. Give it a rest.

God, if this is true, chalk another one up to McRobbie screwing one more thing up....about which he has no knowledge or interest. Dolson has a close friendship with lots of players, Chris included. Indiana did what Indiana does. I for one hope Scott tears up the student athlete book of softness or whatever that thing is. He does that, we're off to a good start. Scott isn't a bad hire. Chris just would have been better.

Indy Star