Old Friend

Long term, I disagree with you. The house of cards is beginning to crumble down there. Next year by itself is irrelevant. As a stable program, we're in better shape than they are.

Crean always seems to do just enough. But listen, Nobody was beating Carolina tonight. Indiana is in better shape right now than Kentucky. There are good things happening. There is no question he has to win consistently. Absolutely no doubt. Next season, if Indiana falls off the face of the Earth like they did 3 years ago, his seat will again be justifiably hot. But....unless we're going to get Brad Stevens, I don't know that getting rid of Crean now is the answer. I am no big fan. The fact still is he's made it past the sweet 16 just one time in his coaching career. That will haunt him. But for now, I don't think he should be on the watch list. And I have been a harsh critic. He needs to land Romeo Langford. He needs to land Robert Phinnessy. He needs to start building rosters he can be at the top with every single season. 1st, 8th, 7th, 1st is not Indiana. I can live with 1st, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 1st 2nd, 4th, etc. That's Wisconsin. That's Michigan State. And there's no reason Indiana can't be in the conversation every year, except Crean seems to miss on so many recruits and tries to out think the room. That's what bugs me now. Just get the kids you know can and will help for 2-3 years, and get them every season. Crean made changes this season, and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how we do next year. We need to stay in the top 3-4 in the Big Ten or he's in real trouble. At some point, facts do matter. But I don't blame tonight's loss on him specifically. We didn't have the size; and they made everything. His career has a turning point right now....we'll see.

Yes. And I use Chrome, too.

When I try to go to the main basketball forum page, I get this : Fatal error: Class 'IPS\Dispatcher\Front' not found in /home/btownban/public_html/index.php on line 13 HELP!! Someone PM me and tell me how to rid myself of this! I got HERE by clicking on that active thread icon on the right side of the main page, but cannot access the other threads. I can see Football, Recruiting, etc. Not Basketball. Help me!!

Crean needs to make this kid priority #1. And Robert Phinessy (sp) from McCutcheon a close second. Every coach needs to tell Langford there's no way Pitino will be there in 4 years. He may be, but with all the crap going on down there?? I think I'd be at every game I could, just to watch him. He's as good as there is in our state right now.

Morgan will play for sure Friday.   Put it in pen with no question and absolute certainty.  No clue about Johnson.

No brakes.  He can steer, but the car just careens out of control so often...

He has way too much freedom.  And I think Crean has way too much faith in him.  At the end of the Michigan game, if you're John Belien, isn't your dream play at the end defensively (with the game tied) to have the ball in Williams' hands, or anyone BUT Yogi?  That was, I think, a case of Crean overthinking the room again.  It ended up costing Indiana a 3 seed, I think.

Something I really hope lots of people realize....we are better than Kentucky.  They may hit on a group of recruits every now and again; but Indiana, right now, is better than Kentucky.  I'm really proud of the way we're playing, how resilient the team is, and the direction of the program.  I hated the Michigan game in the BTT.  Exposed every weakness of our team from coaches to players; but they've found a way to overcome it, and I think building recruiting momentum is pivotal right now.      Romeo Langford?  Robert Fennessey?  You guys watching?

I thought that was one of his best moments as the Indiana coach.  I loved it.

Our RPI is 22 right now.  That ain't good for anyone hoping for a 3.  It can happen, but our SOS is 71 on Sagarin and 98 on RPI, which is also not favorable.   The reality is we DID play a weak schedule comparatively.   We may even be a 5 seed.   We beat Michigan, I do think we were a 3, and if we beat Purdue, we're a possible 2.  But that loss, coupled with a few other things knocked us back.  

No idea what you're talking about.

Injuries didn't affect his inability to adjust or Belien's plan working to perfection.   The way to beat Indiana was the same in 2010 as it is now.  Our half court offense is still inept.  That was true with Verdell Jones and it's true with Nick Zeisloft.    No excuse to lose to a better game plan when we have the talent and experience we do.  Injuries are not an excuse, especially when they're without THEIR best player (LeVert).

We have been far better without him.  He either needs to step up his game and decide defense is important, or transfer.  He can score a little; but I haven't seen anything to indicate we'd miss him next season.  He was a complete defensive liability.

So I'm having coffee this morning with a couple of friends I haven't seen for a while.  One a long time Indiana Basketball junkie like the rest of us, the other an alumnus and casual basketball fan.  More a baseball guy.   Both grew up, like I did, with the Bob Knight era and that level of expectation.   The first told me how disappointed he was because the team had finally sucked him back in over the last 3 months.  They were fun to watch, won games against good teams, etc.   It had taken him that long to really get back into Indiana Basketball because of the complete comedy of errors it was between 2000 and 2010.  He, like many, was skeptical, even while Indiana was #1 3 years ago because he knew Crean was Crean.  Then, when we bowed out early in both Big Ten Tournament and NCAA Tournament, his feelings...he felt, were validated.   I sure couldn't argue.   Next guy says the same thing :  "I was starting to pay attention again, and yesterday just punched me right in the gut because it's what Crean's teams always do.  Then, in the post game interviews, the players acted like they didn't care.   Well, I care.  Or I did.  Not so much, now."   I took two things from that.  The first being Indiana fans will never fully embrace Tom Crean.  He has a pattern...an undeniable pattern of being unable to win when it matters.  To give fans a thrill by going on a run because he consistently gets out coached.  Whether it was Bo Ryan time and again, Tom Izzo time and again, or yesterday, John Belein, he's just not a good game coach.  Can't adjust, and can't make changes to what's happening so HE has the advantage.  Seriously, when's the last time any of us said "wow, that game plan or that adjustment by Crean really baffled the other team/coach?"      The other being how he seems so proficient at turning people off.  He was winning people back with the way his team played; but it now seems the schedule and circumstances were more to blame than he was.  He is the Big Ten Coach of the year, yet loses a first round game as a 1 seed to a tired 8 seed because he got abused from a coaching standpoint.  Purdue lays the wood to Illinois, who isn't much worse than Michigan, and we can neither score nor stop them from scoring; and we lose..both a game and a bunch of fans who were starting to believe in this man.  Then..the players have the audacity to blow it off.   Like they don't give a damn.  Look, boys...thousands of alumni who are paying your way to school DO give a damn.  I am embarrassed by their mouths and their attitudes, and by their coach's allowing that attitude to fester.  You cannot turn it on and turn it off when you want to; and yesterday was a 100% coaching loss.     I've said several times that if Crean is responsible for 200 things, he's done well at 190 of them.  But, one of the things he's not good at costs Indiana games...time and time and time again.  He hasn't performed in the post season, and that should be his downfall here.  He;s now losing fans who had started to watch again for the very reason they went away in the first place.  Yesterday was a big loss.  A huge hit.  I wish he realized the importance of it.  They may well go on a nice run the next two weeks or so; but they may not.  Would have been a whole lot easier as a 2-3 seed than a 4.

Thanks, Treesh.   More of a vent than anything, but I appreciate it.

Indiana Basketball is not known for success in the regular season, beating weather vane teams, or being able to win conference home games.   True, we had a couple of nice road wins this season, however one was against Iowa...a team fading into the oblivion and on a downward spiral when we played them. We had a very easy conference road schedule, which, to the team's credit, we took advantage of.   But that erases nothing today.  Indiana is known for post season success.  Yes, Big Ten titles are nice, and I'm on record as saying being in the title conversation every year should be Indiana's primary goal.  Consistency will - like Michigan State - put Indiana in position to do good things in the post season every year, too; and that's what I want.  To "be there" every year.     Problems are :   1)  Tom Crean has never won consistently in his career 2)  Tom Crean's post season record is abysmal.  Awful.   Today...Belien stretched out every offensive possession.  His players took away transition, AND they took away the 3 point line.  Formula for beating Indiana....every time?  Check.  And, Crean never adjusted.  Never trapped, never pressured the ball, never did anything to speed them up.   We didn't look inside out on the offensive end, preferring to play slowly on the perimeter; and take several bad shots.   At the end of the game, we played into Michigan's hands by letting Williams dribble the ball..drive into traffic.  Turnover or fumbled ball waiting to happen.   If I'm Belien, I want anyone BUT Yogi with the ball in his hands, because Yogi has become unguardable and can get to the lane and FT line about when he wants to.   Ball is not in Yogi's hands.     Crean's substitutions were baffling.  Absolutely dumbfounding.  We go on a run almost exclusively because of Bryant, and Bryant comes out.   Yogi, who looks like a cross-fit poster model and is a senior who needs to be in the game comes out just after Michigan went with a 1-3-1 half court trap, and Niego promptly turns it over.  He also makes a horrible pass to Bielfelt, I think who immediately turns it over because the pass was toward the defense.   Hartman does next to nothing, but plays 20 minutes.  Ryan Burton plays 5 minutes.  Niego 4.  It's tournament time, boys.  You don't play walk ons in close games.  You just don't.     Crean has not been a successful post season coach.  He gets OUT coached time and time again.  So...until he proves me wrong, I view IU's glass as half empty simply because "they are who we thought they were."   There's a reason our SOS is very low.  I think we're still a 4 seed, but this loss cost us at least one line, and I'd sure rather be a 3 than a 4.      But the primary reason I'm "half empty" tonight?  I saw the same things I always see when IU loses, and Crean seems to do just enough to keep his job, and keep Indiana mired in mediocrity.  Purdue just kicked the crap out of Illinois.  Made it look easy.  We've got the best point guard in the country, a McDonald's All American Big Man, and terrific shooters; and we couldn't even get good shots.   Maddening.

I'm already pretty pissed.  Today's game (Michigan) showed why I and many others simply cannot invest in Crean 100%.  He just got abused today and had no idea what to do when Michigan's game plan worked.  They made IU play defense for 30 seconds every possession, and then got something going toward the rim.  Indiana never adjusted.  Out of timeouts, Indiana struggled to get a good shot.     The formula to beat Tom Crean is obvious.  There's nothing beyond dribbling in the half court.  No movement.  No post seals.  No ball reversal.  So this March?   Indiana needs to play like they give a damn.   Today, they looked content where they were; and cost themselves at least a 3 seed and maybe a 2.  Now, we'll be in the 4/5 game the first weekend instead of the 3/6 or 2/7.  Anything less than the sweet 16 is unacceptable, and with the parity of this season?  We were capable of a deep run with a higher seed.   This loss is costly, but expectations are the same.  Not a good start (again) to the post season.   

For all of the success this season, Crean got abused by Belein today.     1)  UM controlled tempo for 40 minutes 2)  At the end...our ball, tie game.  If you're the opposing coach, don't you WANT the ball out of Yogi's hands and in Williams' hands?   3)  Substitutions today were.....almost unbelievable.   UM goes to a 1-3-1 half court trap, and youy leave Niego in to handle it??  Seriously?   Bryant makes great things happen on 3 straight possessions and you take him out.    You leave Hartman - who is giving you absolutely nothing - in for extended minutes when we're struggling to score.  Ryan Burton played.  Ryan.  Burton.    4)  Formula for beating Indiana :  same as it's always been.  Completely take away transition, and don't allow perimeter shots.   Our half court offense is that bad.  If we have the perimeter taken away...we lose.    Or we're in a tight game we shouldn't be. 5)  Michigan made Indiana play defense for 30 seconds on every possession, and everything was going toward the rim for most of the game.  Meanwhile, out of a timeout, our offense was a running hook shot by Williams with 19 seconds left on the shot clock. 6)  Williams is allowed to dribble WWWAAAYY too much.   Games like this are exactly why fans will never fully embrace Tom Crean.  That was a coaching loss.  100%.  It's the post season, Tommy, boy.   Harrison Niego and Ryan Burton do not need to play.  At all.   Crean got abused today.   Indiana is Indiana because of its post season success, yet Crean's teams lose before they should year after year after year, tournament after tournament.

History with this guy says otherwise, but if you judge by one post, yes.  And intentionally so.   

Sigh.....I love posts like this.    Cherry picking is awfully easy.   Not that I need to, but I'll bite.  Even though this is not at all relevant to the point.   OG is from St. Louis.  3 1/2 hours from Bloomington; a drive.  And he played AAU ball with a midwestern team, and was local all the time.  Not what I'm talking about.     Sheehey on his own was nothing we needed to go to Florida for.  We could have found plenty of kids to play the role he played on the good teams he was on.    Just some facts and data based on them : As a senior, he averaged just 11 points a game on a team that went 17-15, finished 8th in the Big Ten and missed the post season.  He had an assist/TO ratio less than 1:1 that season and for his career.  He didn't shoot 70% from the FT line.  He was a poor outside shooter, averaging < 33% from the 3 point line for his career.  He was made far better by his team mates, and any argument against that isn't being honest.   Loved Sheehey's intensity, but he was a role player on a fantastic team.  You think we had to go to Florida to find that?   Oladipo is an exception to the rule.  And every rule has exceptions.   I know I mentioned Robinson, but the real point in this particular discussion is big men. 

Right.  Guy-Marc Michele was going to be the one exception.   Gosh, you're right.  I don't know how I missed that.   I don't know you and don't mean to offend you but the pollyanna ignorance of that thought process is just funny.  I don't know what else to say.  You're right.  A kid who's been playing basketball for 3 years (some of it in Europe where the training isn't exactly what they'd get here) and went to Northern Idaho, putting up very pedestrian numbers while there was going to be THE one exception in a long line of failures.   My goodness....naive doesn't begin to cover it, and you have been stalking and disagreeing with me long enough for me to just tell you I think this thought process is just that.  Ignorant and naive.     Yes...I do know.  Based on experience, I absolutely know.  Without a doubt, I know.  What's he done since, by the way? Did he blow up anywhere?   No...he's averaged 8 points a game on a bad team in Greece that would get slaughtered by any team in the NBA D-League   Did you seriously base any judgement of a player based on Hoosier Hysteria??    My God.

Every big kid "seems to have potential."   We heard the exact same word - "potential" about Bawa Muniru, Mike White, Ben Allen, Tijan Jobe, Priller, etc.  On and on and on and on.  Michele started playing basketball at 16.  He had zero instinct; and would have been awful in the Big Ten.   Nobody will ever convince me that a kid who doesn't have basketball IQ, instinct, and specific court awareness will ever succeed in college at a high level because every player around him DOES have instinct and is far more experienced.  His JUCO numbers were very mediocre.   I saw a tall guy with some athletic ability.  We've seen that movie before.  Might as well be called "Groundhog Day."   I am very tired of projects from all corners who have "potential.'  Give me guys who can play...who have played.  Bryant.  Zeller.  Etc.  Every time Indiana signs a kid nobody's heard of, we see some guys pouring on the BS about "diamond in the rough," etc.  Crean doesn't need to out think the room, and his track record with big men is awful.  Go get good players, and stay away from projects from Northern Idaho.

I don't think we needed to go to Maryland to get a 6'3" kid like him.   Even with what he had.  Just my opinion..nothing more.  It's the one thing I still wish Crean would change.     There are literally dozens of really good 6'3" guards within 150 miles of Bloomington every year, and none have to change shooting hands during their college career..  I just don't like that Crean spends $680K on recruiting when Wisconsin spends $60k and Michigan State spends $120K because they don't focus their attention on the whole country and especially the east coast.  I completely get going after a kid like Bryant and have no problem with it.  But it's the 3* kids...why?   We have one in next year's recruiting class ranked 169th.   Why do we need to go to the east coast to get that kid?   I don't care who his brother is.   There are incredible players in Logansport, McCutcheon, (there are 3 GREAT players at those schools right now), and obviously Indianapolis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Chicago, Evansville, etc.  Why go to Maryland?   Why go to New York?   I don't follow everything like I used to, and there may be a very legitimate reason; but I have always believed the closer you stay to home, the better chemistry you'll build on a consistent basis because the kids all know each other; and they also have a better understanding of whatever culture they're getting into.   Again..my opinion.

Sadly, he's nowhere near as good as Tijan Jobe.  I want to go back to the Hoosier Nation thread where some guys were trying to convince people he was a "steal" from down there.   There were lots of arguments back and forth.  I will never understand Jeremiah April.  Tim Priller.  Guy-Marc Michele.  Peter Jurkin.  Stanford Robinson.   I simply do not understand the need to go get warm bodies from all parts of the country.  We spent 10x what Wisconsin did on recruiting last year, and for the last several, much of it to get guys like this, and it makes no sense.