OKHOOSIER

Except those examples given other than San Diego State involved what we want here: new coaches. That is the difference. TT is probably the best example for the style, given they have continued to go portal heavy after the Beard exodus. That could also be a side effect of recruiting to Lubbock Texas vs a program decision. UCONN is simply a fabrication. They had 1 transfer portal this year (Cam Spencer) and three the year before. KSU, also new coach, had 2 for this year. Teams basically are not doing this unless they have to.

To go in a different direction, and I am just spit balling here, what does everyone think about potential locker room dynamics with the players that stay and the players we purchase? Does it fracture? Really curious how someone like MR or GC would feel about playing with 4-6 new hired hands? Seems awkward, but maybe money is all that matters and as long as everyone is getting theirs it will be fine. Thoughts?

The bolded above is true. It is also not what you said in your original post. I went ahead and looked it up. Currently there are 5 teams that have been consistently ranked this season with 4 or more transfers. Illinois, Kansas, Alabama, South Carolina and UNC. Of those, only South Carolina (52) and UNC (32) were ranked outside the top-30 in high school recruits. Florida is the only team with 6 who you could say have been a success, I will give you that. Ole Miss also falls into the decent with 6 category (we know who their coach is). Most have been awful, with some decent coaching jobs sprinkled in, but mostly awful. To take it a step further, there are exactly 2 teams that have been consistently ranked with 5 or more transfer: Kansas and UNC. That's the list. Those are the examples, and to use your words, we most certainly not Kansas or UNC. Here is the important piece. All of the "mostly ranked" teams I mentioned above sans South Carolina (57th 3 recruits) have top-20 high school recruiting classes for 2024 with a minimum of 3 commitments. Alabama, UNC and Kansas are 6, 7, 8 respectively. This is where the argument breaks down. Exactly no one is depending on the portal exclusively. So unless IU is on the cutting edge of a brave new world (LOL), this is why people are skeptical, to put it lightly.

Don't really have much to add unless we get some news, so I am going with the assumption he is coming back. That said, what do we think about next year in terms of firing? If things go really south would IU fire mid season? That seems crazy based on our history, but if we have a Michigan or Georgetown under Ewing season, it has to be in the ball park right? Also wanted to get on page 666 DOOOOOOMMMMMM

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretzky" -MICHAEL SCOTT

You just hit the nail on the head. The pro-woody year four crowd are conveniently ignoring this fact. Woody came in with a fairly strong roster and inherited a team that was #56 on Torvik. Credit to him for keeping the players. But he was not hired for a rebuild. I remember the texts with my friends and at least a couple had the reaction of "WHO?" And not just who as in are you kidding me, who as in who in the hell is Mike Woodson. I knew him only as failed NBA coach and IU alum, and I am a basketball junkie. His status as IU legend meant nothing to me, his status as never coached in college and flamed out of the NBA as a HC did. He was never going to have a long leash with the fan base. This is just the manifestation of that.

I’m sure it’s happened more than once but the only impact player I can think of that went through senior day and stayed put was Boo Buie. Otherwise I agree, we should know soon. Probably around the time Woody does lol

I am going to start signing work emails “You’re Homie”

I want this to be true, I just personally don’t see it. And based on even your assertion, his defense has regressed as well as his decision making. He has 100% shown flashes, I just don’t see a starting PG, and that’s his role here going forward pending the portal. He certainly can provide minutes, but he has been abused off the dribble against more athletic guards to include fellow freshmen. Also I don’t think I was clear I 100% don’t want him to transfer, I just don’t envision his role here the way he’s been used, that was more my point is Woody not using him in ways that put him a position to succeed.

FAU sure is fun to watch. Dusty is going to be stalking a high major sideline soon. I agree with others he may be more of a risk than a Pearl or Oats type, but good gracious if he ends up as a star somewhere else that’s going to hurt.

Yea no one has been bashing Cupps, his minutes were a by product of other issues that were not his fault. Woody continuing to ride him in games where he was so overmatched at both ends frankly made me feel bad for Cupps. It wasn’t just IU fans. Every Reddit game thread had opposing fans observing how hard he was trying chasing around players he shouldn’t have been on the floor with. Cupps is not B1G caliber PG. not now, not in four years. Hope I’m wrong and he can develop. But development isn’t going to add size or athleticism. I think he’d be great at a place like Dayton. It speaks to one of the systemic issues— woody not putting his players in a position to succeed for most of the season. The last few games are a perfect example. Tight rotations, playing your horses with 2 fouls, less time with 2 centers on the floor, pulling non-contributors as soon as possible for rest, moving in transition, basically all the things we and the IU media were screeching for in November December and January. This is not a team devoid of talent despite the roster holes, Woody has himself to blame for this smoke. There is a tournament team in this bunch. And it would have been a good coaching job and this thread wouldn’t exist and we’d probably have some recruits for 24.

Yea AH will be as it always is. The seniors will be celebrated, no one will get booed unless we get blasted off the court. The BTT is where the displeasure will arise, it always is. Really hope we don’t see Gallo and Leal participate in senior night. Since the head coach went down n record saying he doesn’t know, has anyone seen anything leaning one way or another?

Okay, I will bite. What other issues? And don’t mention fans, we already know what you think on that point. Thus far, you have disagreed with anyone who points out any systemic issue with the program unless one makes a point you can’t strawman without outright lying. I am being 100% serious here. What are the reasons the program is in free fall? If you don’t believe that it is, explain to me why? I promise you, if you could make a “logical” argument to walk me off the ledge I would genuinely love to hear it.

My dude woke up and chose violence, I’ll give him that. At least now we can go around in circles of deflect and gaslight for a few more pages of content, and Saturday is usually slow lmao

Wait, we aren’t the cool thread anymore?? :(

I appreciate you taking a more nuanced approach here despite several points I fundamentally disagree with. I am not going to respond to all your points, but there are a couple things here that I will. You talk about building back now but the systemic issue existed before the decommit, hence the noise and the thread. At worst this was a 3 year rebuild even with Liam, at best it is depending on year over year portal hauls to maintain any momentum--that is simply not shown to be sustainable at the high major level. Woody is not going to be here until he is 70 and that was true before the decommit. That is why people saw the need for change. Call it too soon, call it whatever you want, delaying the inevitable is not a logical way to run the program. Blaming fans is generally nonsense, and I am not getting into that beyond this--can fans be better? Yes. Is tweeting at 'croots dumb? Yes. Is painting the entire fanbase with that brush fair to excuse the coaching failures? No. Lastly, and this is the main tone of the post that we do not deserve to be an elite fan base. Think about what you are saying. Your argument boils down to "IU has been bad for 24 years, so fans have no right to be passionate or complain." The reason the fan base even gets brought up in situations like this is because it has stuck by the program despite two decades of mismanagement. I could argue that the fan support is the only thing that still resembles the schools you mentioned. We are not Top-10 in wins in the last ten years. We are Top-6 in attendance. Currently, IU is number 10 nationally in money (read: fan money) spent on NIL stores. The very players that seemingly could be scared off by the lunatic fringe, also profit in HUGE amounts-- again, because of the fan base. The fan base acting like we are Kentucky, UNC or Kansas is the only remnant of our blue blood status. Saying it doesn't deserve to be is obtuse.

I have your show named already: "Free Fallin: IU Basketball and the Idiot Wind"

Amazed I had to wait as long as I did for the double entendre.

That was supposed to be Caleb Love who was actually on campus and Woody didnt know who he was. He told Knecht to not visit until after his surgery, Knecht visited Tennessee, and then committed to Tennessee without visiting. From my understanding of it.

I haven't interpreted any of those reports as "literally no contact" but more a lack of simple interaction direct from Woody. Something like a text after he had a big game, or just a text seeing how school was going. Little things that mean a lot to people on a personal level. Things that Bill Self was probably doing the entire time.

Osterman was pretty clear on the ITH pod that the news came from within the athletic department (careful not to name Dolson though as I recall) and was confirmed by multiple outlets after IndyStar broke it. Dolson being MIA is interesting, but by all accounts it seems accurate. He also stated he believed it was to get in front of all the "wild rumors" floating around about Pearl, et al. I definitely believe they had no idea the LM news was coming, and if anything, thought it would entrench his status as our 1 recruit. Proud of us for potentially being the source of "wild rumors" though!

Hes going to be in a different jersey next year, and I will be happy for him.

One of the guys on AC last night did a nice analytical breakdown of what it was going to take to solidly be a tournament team before the LM news. And from a numbers and production perspective, it would have taken the greatest portal haul since it became a thing. Post LM, it’s essentially impossible based one the amount of production even in a portal year to year. We already had to pull the best 2-5 players which LOL. Now we are going to fill the roster with players that are not high major contributors. Think Sparks, but different positions. We have to move on. Full stop.

4. Just not going anywhere. Joke was on us though, he didn’t just mean as coach, he meant it literally, as in, not going to sectionals.

This is why you don’t name buildings after living rich people who have nothing to do with basketball other than being rich. We are beholden to the donor class beyond say if it was just Kroger Assembly Hall. Or *gasp* just Assembly Hall. Kentucky- Named after Rupp, Kansas— Named after Phog, UNC— Dean Smith etc, etc. if we weren’t a poverty program we would have told them, respectfully that AH would not be named after a donor and found something else like we did for Cuban. Kinda hard to argue with the families on the marquee.