BGleas

I didn’t see the play, but if it’s as you described I love that call. I’m so sick and tired of guys purposely falling down after taking jumpers in a clear attempt to bait refs into bad calls. That’s one play I’m all for being legislated out of the game. I watched about 10 minutes of a Miami Heat game this season and in that span Tyler Herro drew bogus fouls three separate times on 3pt attempts by falling down on purpose when nobody touched him.

It's not ominous, it's actually a fairly good sign. I'd be way more concerned right now if the offense was struggling but the defense was carrying things. Archie knows how to coach defense, we've seen him do it. Instead of always being 'glass half empty', how about being excited that the offense and shooting looks pretty good so far, and that's with our starting point guard hobbled and our senior guard in street clothes, and be confident that Archie is going to get the defense straightened out. You'd love to be hitting on all cylinders of course, but it's November and very few teams are. I'm encouraged and excited that the offense looks good, while understanding and being confident that Archie will get the defense on point. I'd rather have this than the reverse.

Good question, and admittedly I’m working off a very small sample size and I’m going pretty much off the eye test. By “smaller” I don’t necessarily mean small, I just think based off what I’ve seen, albeit against low competition (though I think Portland is better than their projection) that IU has played best with two forwards as opposed to three. I wouldn’t really call a Phinisee, Durham, Hunter, Smith, TJD lineup small, and I think that’s been our best lineup so far. I also don’t think the bigger lineups have been bad, I just see better offensive flow, rhythm, and shooting, and better defensive quickness and speed when we’ve played “smaller”. Maybe more athletic is actually the better word. This doesn’t mean I don’t like our big guys, Thompson was fantastic yesterday, TJD has been really good, Brunk is solid, and Smith has been really good obviously, I just think it’s tough in today’s game to big when your bigs don’t shoot from the perimeter, and none of them are a guy like a Kaleb Wesson who is going to dominate the block offensively. Our bigs aren’t guys that you can dump the ball down to on the block 5 possessions in a row and let them go to work. We’re still relying on our perimeter guys to make the plays. The offense wasn’t bad yesterday, I’m not saying we’ve been bad with the bigger lineups, I just think we’ve played best with the more athletic, slightly smaller lineups. Ideally with everyone healthy and hopefully Hunter having shaken off the rust, I think IU’s best lineup will be Phinisee, Green or Durham, Hunter, Smith, TJD, and then you have a bench of Green or Durham, Thompson, Brunk, Franklin, Anderson, and Davis is available for certain situations.

Completely agree. It’s a small sample size, but it’s pretty clear to me this team is best playing smaller. This game was close because we fouled too much and we couldn’t shoot from the perimeter. We fouled too much partly because we played too big and without athleticism, and we shot poorly because most of the game we had 3 non-shooters on the floor. The times we were able to stretch the lead in both halves was when we had Smith and TJD at the forwards with either 3 guards or 2 guards and Hunter. We’re more athletic defensively and have better floor spacing offensively that way.

The problem is we’re talking about holding out a kid, Penny is the one who should be ineligible for the season. Until the NCAA hammers coaches instead of kids, nothing will change.

I think we have something in the middle. I looked it up and the SOS is 63rd in the nation. A few schools who are worse. Oregon St, South Carolina, NC State, Ga Tech, Providence, Arizona, PSU, Missouri, Georgetown, Butler, Pitt, Stanford, UCLA, Oklahoma St, West Virginia, Texas A&M, USC, Alabama, Georgia, UConn, Notre Dame, BC, Illinois (yes, that Illinois who is playing AT Arizona), NW, Miami, Nebraska, Cal, Vandy, and Wake So we're using Illinois as a team that is playing a tough schedule because they're on the road, yet actually their SOS is worse. EDIT: I went to a second website and the ranking were much different. It actually had IU higher at 58, but had Illinois at 57 and Georgia at 56. The first site I used Illinois was terrible. Point still stands though that IU's isn't that bad when we step outside our fandom bubble.

Disagree. It puts everyone at their more natural position, at least in terms of how basketball is played in 2019. I also think the lineup will change at times. Of course playing Purdue or MSU we might go bigger for longer stretches. But if you want the most talented, athletic, skilled lineup on the court, until Hunter is fully ready to go, it's a lineup of 3 guards/wings and Smith and TJD at the forwards. That might not be the lineup that starts for whatever reason, but it's the best lineup. It makes IU athletic, skilled, a better shooting team, and able to play a more transition game which Archie has said he wants to do. It also brings more versatility and athleticism defensively.

Phinisee, Green, Durham, Smith, TJD. Bench: Brunk, Franklin, Hunter, Thompson, Anderson. It was just one game, but the team looked much better with an athletic, more guard/wing oriented lineup, and add to it that Davis doesn't look right, which would justify bringing Brunk off the bench because of interior depth. I think all the "Archie said we're going big" talk has been overblown. He also has said IU can only go big if the bigs prove they can do it defensively. Postgame last night he also aknowleged that the team played better when they got more athletic with Smith and TJD at the forward spots together.

He's not going to start over Smith, he's going to start with Smith.

I didn’t see his comments Monday, but in watching the team I don’t see any way that a healthy Phinisee, Green and Durham don’t start. It’s just one game, but IU looked their best when they went small last night, when they pushed the ball and were athletic on defense. Those three guys are the guys that make everything happen, they’re the most experienced guys, etc. I see Brunk ultimately coming off the bench as the first big coming in with De’Ron getting situational minutes.

I agree with you that there is no way that Durham is coming off the bench, and that ultimately the lineup with be a smaller one with TJD and Smith at the forward spots, especially if De’Ron Davis can’t be counted on to play well, but where I’ll disagree is that there isn’t no way Phinisee is coming off the bench. Hes only coming off the bench now because he missed most of October. He’s arguably the most important player on the team.

My bad, your first post went right over my head.

Not necessarily. There are people that have played a lot longer in the NBA and made a lot more money doing it than Troy Williams has that are flat broke.

R.I.P. CCG! Absolutely one of the best we've had on these various forums, and definitely one of a kind!

I guess that sounds good in theory, but as a 4 you need guards that can and want to get you the ball. Howard is a lead guard and already has the ball in his hands a large percentage of the time, won't be the same for Garcia.

Did you look at Turgeon’s record? He’s got two second place finishes in the Big Ten and a 3rd, otherwise it’s a bunch of 5th-8th place finishes. I know Creanchad his issues, but at least to this point I’d take Crean’s Big Ten Titles, #1 ranking, wins of top 5-10 teams and the 3 Sweet Sixteens over Turgeon’s in a heartbeat.

I think Crean is the best of that group. He’s gone to a Final Four, won two Big Ten Titles, been to another 3 Sweet Sixteens, and put the most guys in the NBA out of the group.

Why are we talking about centers and forwards from 20-30 years ago? The game has evolved, it's a completely different game. Standing on the perimeter doesn't make you a wing in terms of your position. In basketball in 2019 you have guards, wings, and forwards, maybe a center too depending on your personnel. Last year IU didn't really have a center, this year we do with Brunk and Davis. Wings and guards are pretty interchangeable once you get into the halfcourt. The wings and the guards are the ones coming off ball screens, handling the ball, making decisions and creating offense. Answer this simple question. Do you want Justin Smith in that role? The forwards are the ones reversing the ball (wow yes, on the perimeter) after an action and then following it to set the ball screens. The forwards then either slash to the basket or flare, etc. This is the role Justin Smith should be in and has been in his entire career. The simple act of standing behind the 3pt line does not make you a wing or a '3'.

You’re still not understanding it. Yes, both the wings (2 and 3) and the forwards (4’s) are on the perimeter, but their roles on the perimeter are much different. They are not interchangeable. The 2/3’s are, the 4 plays a different role in the offense. The slasher role you’re describing is not a wing, it’s a forward. The wings are coming off ball screens, handling it in traffic, and either shooting, attacking the basket and/or delivering the ball to the slasher. That is not Justin Smith’s skillset. Smith is a forward. The forwards reverse the ball and then set ball screens for the wings and then either slash/roll to the basket or flare. That is Smith’s role and skillset.

There's no 3/4. The '3' is a wing spot, the '4' is a forward spot. They're different roles with different skill sets. Smith has the skill sets to play forward (4), not the wing (3). As mentioned, at the wing spot you're in a role where you're coming off ball screens handling the ball and creating. At the forward spot, where Smith played all of last season, like literally all of his minutes, you're on the perimeter but you're the one setting the ball screens and either diving to the basket to finish a play or fading for the perimeter shot. Smith is a forward in terms of skill set, not a wing. Your comments are Archie are just ridiculous.

His calling card is defense, but he can't play the 3 unless he's drastically improved at ball handling, decision making in traffic, being an offensive creator off of ball screens, passing, shooting etc. In the offense the guards and wings (1,2 & 3) are responsible for coming off ball screens and creating offense for themselves and others. They're responsible for handling the ball in traffic, attacking the basket and making decisions with the ball. I like aspects of Smith's game, and he can absolutely be a key, valuable player for IU, but not only has he not shown an ability to do those things, he's actually shown he's pretty bad at them. I'll be really surprised if Archie is playing three guys together for extended minutes that can't handle the ball and create offense off of ball screens.

Then unless he's improved drastically at the skills required to play the wing, this is going to be another painful season of offense.

Was it precautionary, or just more a scrimmages where you’re trying different things, giving different guys opportunities, etc?

You shouldn't really have to 'teach' free throw shooting by the time guys get to this level, more about the guys getting repetitions and working on it.

Yes, and Hunter had a strong line (minus the turnovers) in limited minutes, Brunk had a strong line, TJD is only going to get better all season long, and Franklin had a strong performance. Throw Phinisee and Green in and there's a lot to like. Free throw shooting is worrisome, worrisome that Smith only had 2 rebounds in 27 minutes and 3 turnovers, and worrisome the Damezi didn't seem to really do anything offensively in 27 minutes, but overall a pretty good result (at least by the final score) given the starting backcourt not playing.