BGleas

I don't think it's really shoddy journalism. They're saying there is proof that Nike offered money to Zion and Romeo. There is no proof that either player accepted that money. With the available info though, we can make the assumption that Nike does engage in paying high school basketball players.

Wow, take a post out of context much? I never said 'load up on top 50 players'. I'd love Archie to get to a point where there are 3-4 guys on the roster consistently that were ranked in that 20-50 range, and then keep surrounding those guys with what he's doing (the Phinisee, Franklin, Leal, Race Thompson and Galloway's of the world). While it is a crapshoot, the crapshoot is a lot less unpredictable in the 20-50 range than it is in the 100-150 range. To repeat myself, I love the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway, etc. recruitments, and I said I'm a big Archie supporter. I was basically looking for something to criticize and if I have to come up with one in terms of recruiting that is it.

To your point, kind of where I'm at is that I really, really like the Galloway and Leal commitments. Really happy with those, same as with guys like Franklin and Phinisee. Love those guys and think they'll all have positive impacts on the program, obviously Phinisee already is, and all have the chance to develop into great players. But, I think for Archie/IU to build a consistently winning program, you have to put those aforementioned guys around a team of 3-4 guys that are ranked in that 20-50 range (TJD, Hunter, Yogi, Bryant, Zeller, etc.). The UVA, Villanova and even UNC model. A consistent pipeline of borderline McDonald's All-American's surrounded by these lower ranked, but still really skilled and smart role players. The you sprinkle in the occasional Langford. I'm on record as an Archie supporter, I think he has the ability to end up being the long-term guy at IU. If I have a recruiting criticism right now it's that he's crushing the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway types, but I don't think we're getting enough, yet anyways, of the TJD's, Hunter's and then going back the Yogi's, Bryant's, Creek's, Watford's, etc. The kind of 'star' power guys that stay 2-4 years. P.S. I hate to make it all about rankings, but it just makes it easier to frame the conversation.

I can definitely see why they would. I can’t comment on Walter McCarty the coach, but I can comment on Walter McCarty the person. He’s a phenomenal guy, just a really, really good person. In my NBA time with Celtics he was probably the best guy I worked with. Treated the front office staff with tons of respect (which isn’t always the case), went above and beyond in the community, and was a guy that would do things for the business people (pr, community and sponsor stuff) when others players wouldn’t show up, or would just refuse, etc. None of that means he’s capable of running a D1 college basketball program, I completely get that, but I can definitely see why coaches like that would go work with him. He’s just good people, and maybe they thought they could bring experience and help him learn the ropes.

I see stuff posted daily, if not more depending on the platform, from the IU Basketball accounts.

The “positionless” in positionless basketball isn’t meant to be a definition of the word, it’s description of how the game is played in 2019. It’s not even a system that a coach chooses to play, it’s simple how the game is played in 2019. It’s about having skilled players that can do multiple things at every position, both offensively and defensively. It’s about bigs that can switch out on the perimeter defensively and players offensively that have multiple skills. It doesn’t mean there are literally no positions. As far as the IU point, it’s not like IU is the only program that plays like this. But again, it’s not really a system you choose, it’s simply how basketbalk is played in 2019. Look at Villanova’s last title, Spellman and Pascal could switch into almost anyone defensively and then offensively spent most of their time setting ball screens and popping out for 3’s or spotting up for 3’s while Brunson posted or DiVencenzo penetrated.

Positionless basketball does not mean 5 LeBron’s on the floor. It doesn’t mean 5 guys that are wings all playing together. It typically means a guard, 2 wings, a stretch or perimeter 4 and a big that is athletic enough to switch defensively on the perimeter and has the skill to handle a bit, play the pick and roll, etc. Bigs IU has had that fall under a positionless lineup would be Zeller, Vonleh, Bryant, Beifeldt, Morgan, I’d expect TJD, etc. Perimeter 4’s we’ve had that fall under this are Watford, Troy Williams, Justin Smith, etc, So yes, you can build a program that way.

Positionless basketball doesn’t mean you don’t have bigs, it means those bigs are skilled guys that can handle, pass, shoot and defend the perimeter. For example, I just watched Boogie Cousins, who is a big dude, grab a board and take it up in transition and the kick it out to Iggoudala for a 3.

Unpopular opinion, but the more I look at last season, and now what we’ve learned about Langford’s injury since the season ended, I’m chalking last season up to injuries. If even 1/3 of the injuries don’t happen, IU makes the tournament and Brooks probably even commits. But, the reality is that those injuries happened and we are where we are. So, now Archie has to try and overcome it. I really hope he can get this team to gel and overachieve, because I think he was really close to getting the momentum going if the injuries hadn’t been so bad. If he can find a way to get this team in the tourney, then I think he can get all this back on track and get IU back to contending regularly

While the paycheck is certainly nice, being a college basketball coach sounds awful.

Agree completely. Hunter, while seemingly talented, will be a RS freshmen coming off a serious condition, Damezi was completely lost last year, and in two years Smith hasn’t any ability to play the wing. I’m not sure why people think Smith can play the wing, unless he improves dramatically, which is possible I guess. The wing is the position that worries me most.

I think the front court is strong, but man the backcourt is really scary and thin. There’s a not a single proven volume shooter on the team. By volume shooter, I mean a guy proven to be consistently good at scoring from the perimeter.

Why would it be a money jump? The guy has made a ton of money. He’s in his mid60’s, it’s his last shot at the highest level most likely. He doesn’t has to deal with recruiting, FBI scandals, etc. , etc.

Like Aloha and MikeRoberts said, I'm talking more about personality. Defense and limiting turnovers are more of an X's and O's thing. I'm talking about the tenacious, you're not going to outwork me, pit-bull mentality that Archie has. I don't watch his IU teams and see his personality coming through in the teams yet. Do you?

I think Archie has the ability to get the job done at IU at this point I will continue to think that, but with that said one major issue I have so far is his inability to get the team to play in his mold. Yes, the defense has been much better and the turnover issue is better since Crean, but I'm talking about identity and culture. That feeling that while you don't if we'll win or lose, you know it's going to look like an Archie Miller team. You know you're going to get toughness, hustle, defense, etc. I understand culture can take time to implement, but how many times do you see a new coach come to a team and while they might not win right away, most likely just due to lack of talent in the coaching transition, but you can see the coach in the way the team plays. You can see how there's a connection between coach/players and they culture is being implemented. I haven't seen that yet from IU under Archie and it's kind of worrisome. I thought at minimum he'd have IU playing super hard and with energy and toughness.

Yup, we literally have no idea what happened. Time to move on. Regardless of who IU has/doesn't have the proof will be in the pudding on the court. Maybe Morton kills us while at Purdue, maybe he's a dud and whoever IU gets turns out the better player. We will see.

I think he's just a guard, not really a straight point guard. In AAU he shares the backcourt with Davis who could also be classified as a point guard and who IU also recently offered. If IU was a finalist and he picked Purdue, then I'd absolutely be thinking that Archie just lost/missed. But clearly with IU not even in the final group something changed, other than Morton just picking Purdue over IU. Nothing in Archie's resume tells me he would have botched things so bad to get eliminated by a kid he was putting the full court press on.

Brunson and Spellman, starters on their last title team, were both 5*'s as well.

Disingenuous? Yeah, ok?!?! I appreciate everything the insiders bring so this isn't some shot at them, but if you run with everything they post you're going to be sorely disappointed most of the time. I view most of them as slightly more educated guessers (again, not meant as a shot at them) in a game where things change extremely rapidly. Some anonymous person posted on a message board that Morton was IU's #1 target? So what? That doesn't make it true. Depending on your perspective, it's been tough not getting Brooks, Harris, Quionoes, etc., but what in Archie's history as IU's coach would indicate to you that he can't get in a guy like Morton's top 4-5? A guy from his neck of the woods where he probably has really good connections and intel? He's landed Langford, Phinisee, Hunter, TJD, Franklin, etc., and got in the final 2-5 for Brooks, Garland, Harris, Quiones, Newman, Carton, etc., etc. We also know that in the last month Archie has offered Leal, Galloway and Morton's AAU teammate Davis, who is really outplaying Morton. It is certainly possible that Archie desperately wanted Morton and Morton eliminated IU, but I find the other scenario much, much more plausible given history and the fact that other than Purdue, IU is the only other school Morton took an official too.

The main reason I think IU cooled is because Morton has a top 4 and I have a hard time believing that IU and Archie (being a fellow Western PA guy) couldn’t at least convince Morton to make it a top 5. After giving IU an official as a junior, I’d be really surprised to hear that he completely eliminated IU from contention.

Tough to answer. He would not have gotten $100 million last summer heading into the NBA season because he wasn't thought of at that level as a player. He wasn't projected to be the #1 pick if he came out last year, so then it would have come down to how good of a rookie season he was having. He he had come right from high school and killed it in the NBA immediately, then he might have earned $100 million in the NBA this past season, but that's an unknown. By going to Duke for a year, he'll be a $100 millionaire before he ever steps foot on an NBA court.

I agree with your point, the NCAA, ACC, Duke, all the broadcast partners, etc. all made millions off of Zion Williamson. That's absolutely accurate and true. But at the same time, Zion himself also made tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars off the exposure and branding he received by playing college basketball. He would not have been the #1 pick if he came right out of high school and the branding and exposure he received playing college basketball will garner him a $100 million shoe deal which would not have happened if he was allowed to go the NBA right out of high school, as well as other endorsements. Zion Williamson benefited incredibly by playing college basketball.

I think there is absolutely a growing sentiment among recruits and families of recruits that the NCAA is 'sticking it to them', so getting paid is now more looked at as a badge of honor as opposed to years ago when you were blackballed as "dirty". Getting paid used to be a scarlet letter, but there's no longer a stigma attached to it by the players and families, it's now more of a "go get mine, I deserve it" mentality. Some of the coaches that pay are definitely benefiting from this.

I think even within the fanbase. Not that fans don't respect TJD, of course they do, but has IU had a less-hyped Mr. Basketball/McDonald's All-American? Maybe the fans are getting smarter and rightfully not putting crazy expectations on him, but it does seem like there is much less excitement/buss around TJD compared to Zeller, Yogi, JBJ, Langford, etc., etc. I'd say even less buzz than out of state guys like Bryant and Vonleh.

Almost feels a little DJ Carton’ish. Remember everyone thought it was Michigan or IU, then Carton made that last visit to OSU and came out of the visit talking about how well he bonded with the OSU players? I don’t expect him to pick IU, but when talking about IU that the second time I’ve heard him mention how well he bonded with the players.