TrueHoosier62

I wish Tom Crean were the answer, but he just plain isn't. His teams are SO fundamentally flawed as to be laughable, and the fact that he had a fair number of Freshman on the roster doesn't excuse it.  Indeed, he could have started Hollowell, Perea, Ferrell, Etherington and Sheehey, not one Freshman in the lot, and does anyone think that team would have done any better? Of course not, they're systemically FLAWED. Instead, we started Vonleh and then couldn't (or didn't) get him the ball on a consistent basis. Who's the point guard on this team, the person responsible for doing that? Oh, that's right, it's Yogi, "give me the damned ball" Ferrell. Sheehey may as well have graduated last year because he surely had already checked out. Perea, when he wasn't embarrassing the program for his off the court activity, did his best to embarrass the program with his on the court inactivity. Etherington is a nice kid, but he should be cast for the next remake of "The Invisible Man". And Hollowell? I'm not sure he could start for Indiana State, much less IU, so what you do with him remains a complete mystery. He's slower afoot than Watford, has no dependable shot, and can't play defense. Other than that, he's a future hall of famer. Those, my fellow IU enthusiasts, aren't Freshman, they're four, second year players plus one four year player, (Sheehey). They've already been indoctrinated by Crean and his "system", whatever the hell that is. The most damning indictment against Crean is that he didn't start that lot because they apparently weren't good enough. So he started or heavily integrated, Vonleh, Williams, Robinson, Gordon, and something called a "Howard" into that mess, (by the way, two of those last five were also Seniors). Either way, we proceeded to lose to Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, and 12 other teams in a weaker than normal Big Ten, (I'd be shocked if any team from the Big Ten reaches the final four this year, and I'm not betting on any to reach the sweet sixteen either). So what about next year? After Vonleh leaves, does it matter? If Vonleh forgets for a moment that until he came here he had a fairly good chance at an NBA career, and decides to spend another year under the guidance of CTC, does it matter? This team has no direction, no discipline, no working plan, (or at least a plan that anyone knows about, or can implement). They're a collection of athletes that must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and having awoken the next morning, refreshed and ready for a new day, decided that they were an IU basketball team. They weren't.

Until Crean is fired, our basketball seasons are going to resemble a badly scratched LP. He "plays" a coach, not so unlike Gene Hackman played a coach in the movie "Hoosiers". In fact, at this point, I'd take Gene Hackman's acting over Tom Crean's coaching.

This seems fair enough, though I have to ask, sincerely, what is DWS? You're right, my post went further than the others, (I apologize), but frankly, I remember a month ago when I wrote a similar post, and received similar responses to those received by TheRobbob. The moderator at that time didn't get involved until I took it "over the line". Had they stepped in before it got to that point, the conversation would likely have stayed civil and basketball related.  If people want to berate Crean or the team's play, particularly during this dissappointing season, then they should be allowed to voice that frustration. Since I think I can assume that Tom Crean isn't posting here under some alias, nor any of the players, nothing said regarding the team ought to be taken personally by those reading the post. Consequently, replies shouldn't be personal. That's all I was trying to get across. Thanks for addressing things.

 If it's "usual" to see people posting such ambiguous and frankly throw away lines such as "anyone who disagrees" then I would find it difficult to believe your feelings were seriously dealt a blow, but maybe I'm wrong.

  HoosierRed01,   MY COMMENTS are pretty close to violating the "no bashing rule"???   A person wrote a fairly straightforward post saying what many people have been saying here lately, lamenting the plight of the basketball team/season. He aired his opinions about what he perceived to be the issues, none of which, I might add, were directed towards anyone here, and certainly none of which could reasonably be taken as personal.   Here are samples of replies to his post:   "You kind of lose all credibility when you say that we don't run an offense. We very clearly do. That should be obvious to anyone who actually watches the game".   "I realize that it is a very complex offense, so if you are used to watching seventh graders, it might be a bit over your head to figure out what is going on".   "Why hello there, Captain Hyperbole. Roy Williams, John Calipari, and even Bob Knight must be 2 year olds".   "We should just hire this guy".   "I realize that it is a very complex offense, so if you are used to watching seventh graders, it might be a bit over your head to figure out what is going on".   "Think what I posted about simple people thinking too simple applies here".   These people called him everything but mentally challened, and that was meant to be personal. Consequently, as nothing was said in response to their sarcasm and piling on, I gave them a dose of their own medicine. I'm all for keeping things civil, but if we're going to "play nice", then it has to go both ways.

To: TheRobbob:   I'm glad to see someone else echo the same points I'd made a month ago to the "Crean Crowd". Of course, your response to their blatant, personal, and belittling sarcasm better be kept in check! It's one thing for the "Crean Crowd" to do it; quite another indeed young man for you to think you can get away with it!  Take solace in this, my logical and sighted friend:  As this train wreck of a season comes skidding slowly down the tracks, you'll hear the "Crean Crowd in full throat, continue their masterful spin of the devastation, saying things like, "well, it could have been worse", or "just wait until Blackmon gets here", or my personal favorite "Well, at least Purdue didn't win it either". Just remember that these people are our brothers in the Cream and Crimson. Sure, they may be graduates from the Helen Keller school for the gifted, but we have to accept them and encourage them, and help them to develop those faculties, so tragically underdeveloped, through no fault of their own. Be kind, and be a big brother.  :yes:

No problem Mamacita, no problem at all. My rather superficial insights of the game yesterday were in direct reply to the sarcasm directed at those of us who earlier deigned to question the used car salesman we have as coach. We aren't fooled by winning streaks, at home, against Big Ten opponents in an embarrassingly down year for the league. Being upset at my post is about as lunatic as some of the pious posts above, proclaiming vindication for having stood by the team. Those of us who have already stated our opinions on the subject, apparently are secure in our convictions, as opposed to those persons who feel threatened by criticism of the team, and therefore make it a bi-weekly point to spout delirious acceptance of mediocrity. It's like the average Kentucky teenage boy, beaming with pride after having just lost his innocence, confessing later that evening that he wasn't sure his sister would go along with the idea. It just doesn't mean anything.

Oh, I enjoyed the win alright. I'm an IU fan all the way. But "concerned with the embarrassment of being wrong"???. LOLOLOLOLOL. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good night Mr. Delusional.

Crean showed the team a video of the second Joe Louis-Max Schmeling heavyweight title fight from 1938 to motivate his team."To play the way that we did without Noah, which we knew it was a possibility yesterday, we knew it was reality today, we had to answer the bell," Crean said. "We did."   Wow, what great coaching! I wonder if he quoted from "Rudy" too. Yawwwwnnnnnn.

  Listen Betty,   Just because you played ball doesn't make your opinion any more accurate than anyone elses, be it another fan's, player's, or coach's. So you played ball?! Big sh_ttin' deal. That doesn't mean your High School coach was worth a damn, or that your own play qualifies you as an expert of college ball, game plans, strategies, or team mascots. It may however give me cause to consider your opinion on the distribution of pop corn at half time. This team stinks because they've not been properly coached; not because they're too young. This team stinks because they've got more athletes than players. This team stinks because they have no shooters, are slow of foot on defense, and have no mental strength. Consequently, this team is outstanding at making passes to other players who're in no position to do anything with it, excellent at blowing leads, and we could win another banner, this very year, if the NCAA awarded the championship to the team best suited to turning the ball over on inbounds plays. We're going to lose Vonleh after this year, and quite possibly Yogi, -"give me the damned ball"- Ferrel. I don't care who comes in next year, the team will likely play the same way, and you, (and others like you), will still defend them for being "too young", and you, (and others like you), will be just as wrong next year. Stevens' Butler teams made it to the finals and consistently made it to the NCAA with a fraction of the talent, which shows you just how lacking Crean is in the coaching department. Oh yeah, they also played a style of game that resembled, you know, Indiana basketball. You can blindly stand by and support the team while Rome burns, but don't belittle the rest of us for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes, or in this case, "The Coach has no Clue".

There are two main ways to win a basketball championship these days. You can do as Kentucky and many other's are trying, by recruiting highly touted NBA ready high school kids that hopefully gel during the month of February of their Freshman year, and make a run in March;   OR,   You have to recruit, as Bob Knight used to, iron willed kids who're great shooters and defenders, who more than likely will hang around for three or four years.   You can't have a mix of the two. This is what Crean is attempting, and it won't work. Vonleh would be a fool to stay another year, and you can pretty much count on at least one other player currently on the team, transferring at the end of the year.

Crean isn't the answer here. Once you accept that fact, then the solution is simple. You let him go. This isn't and shouldn't be a case of where we were, or where we are by comparison. The only question should be, "Do you believe coach Tom Crean can win a championship at Indiana"? If the answer is "No", or "I doubt it", or even, "I'm not sure", then you have to move on from him. This isn't Purdue we're talking about, it's Indiana. Purdue bases their hires and retains on the "hope and wish" approach to life. When you've won multiple national championships as we have, you don't settle for "hope and wish"; you go after someone you KNOW will have damn good shot of bringing home another banner. Tom Crean has done all he can, and we ought to be thankful for taking us this far, but truthfully, this is as far as he's capable of taking us. He has stopped the bleeding and allowed many of us to feel good about IU basketball again, but his snake oil salesman pitches, and his rah rah chants have worn thin. Instead of listening to his weekly tripe, people are beginning to see that the product on the floor these days is simply not very good. 

I don't know what to expect this year. I had high hopes for last year, but the defense was depressing. I sometimes wondered if putting blindfolds on the lot of them would have improved their play.  :biggrin: Let's hope Knorr works out. If we can get marginal improvement on that side of the ball, and the schedule is favorable again, we might have a chance to see a bowl game. I've haven't heard. Did Sudfeld transfer? 

On the small size,but if he can hit like a ton of bricks, who cares? lol What our count up to now?

Your handling of the football recruits/news/signings should receive some kind of award for excellence. It's the main reason I come here. Unbelievable job General.

We need to get bigger and faster on defense. If Knorr is any good, we could start to see more W's and less L's as early as next season.

As long as there are those of us still living who remember the Knight coached teams, everything that Crean throws out on the floor will be measured against them; fair or not. IU fans are some of the best, if not THE best in the country. We know good, well coached basketball when we see it. Win or lose, the Knight coached teams always gave us a feeling that no matter the opponent, we had a fighting chance to win the game. That doesn't mean we would, or did, but we all felt that even on a down year, we could beat a DUKE or UK. It might be because everyone played out of their asses that day, or coach Knight came up with another brilliant game plan, or any number of other intangibles, but we'd go in to games knowing we could win it.    Conversely, Crean's teams remind me of those put together by Lou Henson, Gene Keady, or Dr. Tom Davis at Iowa. Henson and his side kick, Jimmy Collins, could get some of the best talent out of Chicago; nationally recognized talent, and make them a fundamentally sound, competitive team. They'd be tough to beat, until they got in to the tournament. Same for Keady and Davis. Their teams just didn't seem to ever develop to a level that one might seriously expect them to compete for a title, despite all the talent that went through their programs. It's entirely possible that Crean may be in this mold.   The team this year, young and inexperienced though they may be, is fundamentally flawed. They don't handle the ball well, they don't shoot the ball well, they don't play defense that scares anyone, and for some reason, they don't appear to go "all out". They don't have an identity that separates them from anyone else. They do have talent. Like Henson, Keady, and Davis, Crean has put together an amalgam of talented players, that aren't getting appreciably better as the season progresses.   I like coach Crean, and I think, to a point, he's a good coach. But, as he said one time, "It's IU". As such, that puts us above 95% of the basketball programs in the Country, with or without him. In short, I don't think he should be fired yet, but neither do I think Glass should drag his feet if it appears things are not progressing long term. 

I think each year there are several dissillusioned NFL position coaches or even DC's that would be worth considering. In many cases, they'd be high profile personalities, and they'd be better suited for evaluating talent at the collegiate level. My guess is that you could look at various teams who're out of contention for the play-offs, and who because the head coach may soon be gone, might yield some good candidates. Minnesota, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, numerous others. For instance, if Mike Singletary isn't retained as part of the imminent blood letting in Minnesota, he might be a good one to approach as DC. He has head coaching experience, asst. head coaching experience, is tough as nails, is a recognizable name, and would instantly bring credibility to the program. Recruiting would also get a boost. I'm not saying IU would ever, or could ever afford him. I'm not saying he'd ever consider IU. I'm only using him as an example of what one might consider as an alternative to Mallory. Then again, we could also hire a high school janitor, and have a similar upgrade at the position.

The thing I'm most concerned about is the lack of improvement. Not just from one year to the next, but within a single season. There should be some measureable improvement in fundamentals or execution regardless of whom you start. Our defense just hasn't shown it. People like to say that our offense scores so fast that the defense spends a lot of time on the field. Ok, I'll give you that. But one would think that just by being of the field of play that much, and through sheer repetition, we'd have seen them get better at something over the course of the season. One can say that Mallory was coerced in to using more freshman than usual in an effort to field more talent, fair enough. But did that talent improve at all? Can we say this defense is any better today than they were when camp opened last summer? I don't see it, I don't sense it, and I don't believe it has. The offense, while productive as hell, isn't unstoppable. Clearly, when our competition has been subpar, we've flown up and own the field. But Wisconsin didn't have an issue stopping us. We didn't score at Ohio State until the fourth quarter when arguably, down 35-0, they put their scrubs in against our first team offense. We were steady, but hardly overwhelming against Michigan State. Do we really think we'd be able to put up big numbers against an Alabama, Auburn, or LSU? What about Florida State or Oklahoma? Point being that our offense is top shelf only against mid level talent. It gets more positive reviews simply because it can put up some big numbers in those situations. Our running game is average at best, and benefits greatly from the passing game. But lets not kid ourselves. We would have to have a GREAT defense just to be competitive in a game against any of those teams mentioned above, because our offense would be shut down. I really wonder if Coach Wilson is the answer? There's a reason he was a coordinator for years, and not a HC, and I think we're beginning to see why.

 Actually, a "lapse" would be if we were to have a good year now and then. lol

Coach Wilson: "Doug, I don't know Defense from Dumplings, but I think part of our problem is gap integrity".   Coach Mallory: "Well it's not my fault, Coach, i made sure our boys left gaps all along the defensive line"   Coach Wilson: "You're an idiot Doug. Pack your bags and get the hell out. We've got the rotted corpse of Woody Hayes coming in, and he still can't be as brain dead as you are".

  ROFLMAO!

  I remember quite well, that game. Seems like it was only yesterday. Woody Hayes, like Al Davis in the NFL, lost it towards the end, and were never quite right. Still, he knew football in his hey day, and his teams knew something about defense.

If Mallory is out recruiting wtih Wilson, we have no hope; neither in improving our dismal defense, nor in landing anything more than marginal talent. He simply hasn't gotten the job done and it's time for change.

As bad as our defense played this year, they could tell recruits they're planning on digging up the rotted corpse of Woody Hayes, and most kids would consider that an upgrade over Mallory. Hell, we might even land an extra good linebacker from the state of Ohio!