hoosierpap

Probably right. Just something I've never seen personally.

Yeah, he is. I've stated Crean has accountability several times.   Crean and the leader ON the team...the one who is with them on the court, after practice, at dinner, at parties, wakes them up for involuntary shootouts, makes them stay after practice, calls player only meetings, invites underclassmen who live too far to holidays. Much different peer leader role than coach leader role. Both are important, IMO. 

I guess there is a little more gray in my world. I think both the players and the coach need to be held accountable and you're letting players slide otherwise when they are part of the problem. Reasonable minds can disagree.      And, honestly, it's Friday so I'm just gonna go party or something. 

Okay, gotcha.

I'm not sure i'm reading what you're saying correctly but I'm not insinuating IU paid for anyone, at all. Just to be clear lol

I meant nothing by it as it relates to IU. Just saying you have 3 kids on this team who are playing for their futures first and IU second and have been for years. You can't have that. 

    This whole thing is somewhat insane to me. The fact that I am, seemingly, sticking up for a coach who I think deserves to be fired. But the points being made just seem to be piling on and don't really make much sense.   Promises are made in recruiting. That's the norm, not the exception, BY ANY MEANS.   1) YF- alleged promised starter? If that is true, which I have never heard outside of on here, then I guess that was a mistake? I know those promises go something along the lines of "you'll be our starter from day one" which isn't immune to a benching throughout a career.    2) TW- Did Crean promise to get Troy to the next level? Yes, he'd be insane not to use that pitch/promise to Mom. Boo is smart enough to know that his nephew is going to make it based on his measurables alone. Not an issue.    3)JBJ- promised minutes as a primary ball handler? This system runs with a lot of guys with the ball in their hands. I don't see it being force fed JBJ's way. Am I off there?

I'm not absolving Crean here. I may not have stated that in my last post, but definitely did in the ones prior. It's on him, too. But it's a combination is all i'm saying and I certainly don't feel bad for the players.

I think you're going to recruit top players if you can. Crean hasn't always been in that position in the early days. Cody absolutely was a star. So what can Crean really do in identifying trouble? Well there were signs in all cases but, again, you take the talent. YF is clearly that. Everyone knew he had some of these issues but kids were recruiting each other to IU at that time. So yes, there were warning signs but i'm going to allow that article to spell them out more than i'd like to get into. Regardless, what is Crean going to do, not go after a MCDAA in his backyard where there is an obvious need at the positon? No, he's going to go get him and hope he buys in and is humbled by a veteran team where he becomes the pg. It didn't happen. TW is clearly a talent. But he is there for himself. Crean saw an opportunity late in the recruiting calendar to get a top talent and had a connection to the program. Warning signs? TW has played for his Uncle or played for coaches influenced by his uncle. TW grew up playing in that environment and can't imagine there is much accountability to the team. JBJ is a talent. Warning sign? Played for Dad forever, never held accountable. What is Crean going to do when the kid is a top player in the state and is calling HIM at 14 years old? Say no thanks? Again, you assume this guy is going to buy into the system, be about the team etc you get it. But they just aren't. There is no way to measure this or anything, but it's my belief that there is one guy who could have stopped the egos below him. Then again, Will couldn't even get that kids head on straight so who knows.

Just read it. And thanks for posting 8bucks. I wouldn't say it's apples to apples but the overall sentiment of that article is pretty much what I'm talking about. Been that way since day 1 for him.

LOL at that court storm...So awkward

Derek Willis may have the worst tattoo in CBB

Somewhere in FL. I don't remember. I believe he committed/de committed from UCONN. Michigan thought they had him

Remember IU recruiting him

WOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW

No, can you post it here. I missed it. 

Imo, and as it relates to this team, there is one individual who has perpetuated this through the team. And you've got two other goofballs who aren't being held accountable by him. And the whole damn thing  permeates through after that. Can you imagine being OG/TB/JW and looking up to that group. Good god.    I get what you're saying, Wayne. It's going to be hard to find the last time I defended Crean. And Crean does hold the ultimate accountability. But to feel bad for these players, i can't get on board with that. They deserve quite a bit of the blame from my perspective. 

Heard that. I don't have a connection to anyone that was there but may be able to get a general vibe after last night. 

He would continue to recruit well from a talent standpoint, I have little doubt about that.    Contenders vs Pretenders? Well, they have talent. So to me it turns into can you get the guys to buy in or are they going to play for themselves. As a coach, you have to recruit the divas with the idea that they will buy in and I'd say they generally do. So contenders, I'd say. 

Here's the problem, Trav. The administration and BOT does not have the same expectations for the basketball team as you, me, or most people on this board do. They are looking at different factors and not relying solely on on the court results. Fortunately, while they're in "power" they'll go where the money goes. The money just needs to talk. 

I'm also not sure that answered your question lol I think I just went off on a tangent?

I think recruiting under Crean is fairly grim at this point and will remain that way until he starts winning. Obviously, on the court success or, at least, the idea of potential success has a strong connection to recruiting momentum. You've also got the hot seat stuff. IU does have one of the easiest B10 schedules possible so it's possible it turns around but not looking great.   As to who he recruits...I think this and next year is unique in that he has a lot of high quality options in his backyard for '17. I say high quality as both on and off the court. I think looking beyond his '17 recruiting is probably a waste of time with the way things are. 

Ay yi yi. I get Crean needs to be gone. We've known that for a long time. He should be held accountable. But this mentality, this approach, just tells me there isn't going to be anyway to convince you or anyone else that the players need to be held accountable for A LOT of what is going on. I'll have more pleasant days when all 3 "leaders" are gone and making their money somewhere else.     And before someone responds with the "Crean recruited them" line....I'm aware, I follow it pretty closely  :stop:

  I've already put this here..   iuad@indiana.edu

You feel bad for the players? They're the ones playing!?