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Better smash his window and rip him out of the car! Again.....

Not saying we get him.... but, Cupps at PG, McNeeley at SF and Queen at PF would be a hell of a big three for young talent on next year's roster. Gallo and Sparks as the steady hands... If Gunn/Banks take the next step and Newton gets healthy... thats a pretty solid foundation for the roster. You have a good portal szn and 2024-2025 could really be something special. Just a few more days til Sunday and we can start talk about actual IUBB on the court again!

Wow, when people said he and McNeeley are close, I didn't realize to that extent... Probably not a huge factor in the decision, but certainly helps to have someone that close influencing in our favor. Fingers crossed for a pleasant surprise, whenever he announces

Okay okay, that's pretty good news in my book! I'd rather compete with Willard than Sampson. If Maryland wasn't the "hometown" school, I'd be a lot more optimistic here

That is wild, if true. I'm fairly certain Rutgers athletics invites the local PD to various social events throughout the year - cook outs, their version of Hoosier Hysteria, flag football/pick up tournament, etc... I think its a great way for public servants to have some fun while getting familiar with members of the community. When there is a pre-existing relationship/rapport, de-escalation is a lot easier.

On the topic of workshops, which I'm quite sure do take place/are organized by the staff... I wonder if Bloomington PD is involved with any, and if the program makes a conscious effort to socialize the players with the PD for situations exactly like this. Feels like community policing would have gone a long way in this never becoming a story. Granted, this was MCPD, so I imagine unlikely they're involved in any workshops and wouldn't have made a difference here. Bloomington PD was unavailable because they were busy addressing an actually dangerous situation... right?

Are you available to run the workshops?

Wish I could laugh/like/thanks this post at the same time lol. As for the NIL question, I'll post this again... the branding writes itself

Unconscious bias basically guarantees that police reports have an inherent "slant." It's written based off of one individual's perception of what occurred. That is why body cams are so important. It's the only way to have indisputable evidence/guarantee truth.

I have a second ticket for the Sunday game, if anyone's interested, feel free to PM me. Seat Geek also seems to have some good deals available right now.

That the police report is exactly that... the police's version of events... not the indisputable truth?

Yes, the context between him moving out of the drive through to having his window smashed in and being pulled out of the car, is what we are missing... Until we have body cam footage to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what happened, all we can definitively say is that Mack obviously upset the TB workers enough to call the cops and he had multiple opportunities to avoid this happening. The trespassing charge may very well have been justified. The resisting charge, based on the police report alone, smells fishy IMO. It's pretty clear who in this thread has, or hasn't, dealt much with cops on patrol. Things are not always so black and white and some people are better communicators than others. Keep in mind this is an 18 year old, Taco Bell workers, and cop(s).... all have a reputation for being the best and brightest society has to offer. He absolutely may have deserved the trespassing charge. He left the TB property and then was told he was going to be arrested for trespassing. Why? Was he actually off TB property - because if so, is it so hard to believe an 18 year old, still relatively new to town, was shaken after this interaction and pulled over somewhere to collect himself? Just went to the closest place he could find and that made the officers think he was being a smart a$$? Did he actually understand/process what was being asked of him? If that's too much justification for some, fine, I'm just doing the same thing you're doing but from the opposite perspective. Not saying I think that's exactly what happened. Ya know, innocent until proven guilty and all that good stuff...... Even if he wasn't shaken and just pulled into a neighboring lot to get off TB property/continue the interaction with police, how long did they wait before damaging his property to arrest such a clear and imminent threat? Was he cussing at them or somehow provoking the cops? I think that would have been mentioned in the report... he "refused" to get out of the car. Was he actually refusing or just not quick enough to comply for their liking? "It takes :30 to obey an order" is a POV totally devoid of basic human empathy, the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes. Again, what happened after the drive through? If they didn't want to wait around, they could have handed him a ticket and been on their way. They could've come and got him the next day at the IUBB facilities. They could have mailed it. They could have called a supervisor who told them take his info, write a report, then we'll figure out what to do. Keep in mind - this kid is not remotely a flight risk (nor was this incident violent until the window smash...). They could have called a supervisor who told them - f it, we don't have time to waste, smash his window and book him.... The point is... We don't know, and we won't know, without body cam footage. Passing a moral judgement over him for getting p!ssy with TB workers, okay sure I guess... Calling him a thug or implying its totally his fault/that he somehow deserved the window smash (based on these "facts" alone) is silly... but I suppose that's the right of unserious, ignorant folks. Getting your window smashed in and being restrained/cuffed is a traumatizing experience. MM is an 18 year old black man from out of state with a lot to lose... if you can't fathom a situation (created by himself) escalating (through a combination of unclear communication/overzealous policing) then I hope you enjoy living under that rock of yours (not directed at you Golfman). To say there is "nothing else to consider" is laughably close-minded, but some are happier than others to accept a false reality where cops are ALWAYS the good guys and ALWAYS do a great job. Anything else = too hard to fathom. Whatever helps ya feel safer, I guess. Empathy is a dying virtue.

Well... the right to own private property - in itself - is political. Supporting LEO use of force (in a situation where we still don't have body cam footage to give us insight into what actually happened) isn't political? In today's climate, really? ... What happened to due process? Lol. I've been on the internet long enough to know not to feed the trolls... but more than happy to continue the conversation in private messages if you'd like. Not that either of us would probably find it very worthwhile anyway... 5 more days til IUBB is back!

Thanks for your stump speech @IndyResident16 I think we're familiar with where you stand on this, by now, lol... Have we examined every angle of the available information ad nauseam enough yet? Or is this horse not quite dead yet? Since this is actually on the topic of IU basketball... I agree, this needs to be addressed/cared for with prospects. As we've seen from this thread, people can run fill in the blanks with all sorts of ideas/narratives, if we can't give them a clear picture

Points 3 and 4 - couldn't agree more. My thing is... pretty sure you can simply issue someone a misdemeanor as a ticket/citation without booking them in (speaking from personal experience in Bloomington). They could've mailed the darn thing if they didn't want to wait, presumably 15 more minutes for his father to show up (of course, the cops are not obligated to wait around, I get that...). But not like they didn't know who he is or where to find him... Just depends what kind of cop you draw in any given situation. MCPD is not inclined to do an IU student any favors, generally speaking. Don't mistake what I'm saying - Mackenzie 100% made a series of dumb decisions and this all could have been avoided. He was in the wrong and things escalated. At the same time, he did not need to have his window smashed in and to be dragged out of the car, cuffed up. Mug shot circulated. Both things can be true at the same time. I'm probably going to abstain from this thread/part of the conversation after this post so we don't spiral way off topic. I wonder if/when the punishment will be announced. Sucks his bone-headed behavior is likely going to cost the team the chance to get more reps under their belt playing together in the exhibitions.

You bumped into a nice cop! My Kroger incident was truly something to behold. During Lil 5 weekend, when there are 5 police agencies in town. Baby face me, already a 6 pack deep, was obviously the best choice to go in when we needed to make another booze run. Wasn't funny at the time..... but live and learn right

I'm assuming mary jane had something to do with this but he was at least smart enough to not have any in the car... obviously purely my own speculation. Because again... who can go to Taco Bell sober at 3am lol. Would also probably explain maybe being super anxious/paranoid of the cops, and freezing when asked to get out of car, causing them to smash the window... Any way you slice it not a good night for Mack. Take the punishment, learn the lesson, get better and move on.

Yeah this is really weird behavior, I'm not going to make assumptions to fill in details - but we're obviously missing some information. It just throws me for a loop because he had seemed humble in interviews/like a down to earth guy. For example, when he was a star prospect he let two middle school kids have a very long interview with him for their youtube, lol. Had no reason to do that but you could see their excitement. I had always heard he was a basketball junkie and lived in the gym. Acting like that at Taco Bell, at that hour, makes me question if he actually is a little bit... but at the same time he is 18. I'm in no position to ridicule considering when I was 18 and got arrested for a fake ID at Kroger, I decided to not let that bring the night down and keep drinking. Where I proceeded to black out, wake up in the hospital, with another ticket in my pocket. LOL... Salzmann Law saved the day and all is well today. Hopefully he learns from it and this is the last we hear of anything like this from an otherwise reputedly good kid.

I am relieved to hear this, because based on everything I'd come to learn about MM, an arrest is TOTALLY out of character. His parents are Nigerian. They don't take shaming the family name lightly at all. Obviously nothing good happens when you're out that late, unless it's at Cook Hall. Hopefully that is the takeaway for Mack after some extra conditioning work from the staff. Maybe sit him for the Indy exhibition too. Imagine Woody is having a come to Jesus conversation along the lines of "son if you want to be in the NBA next year it's got to be all basketball and class, all the time, at least while you're in Bloomington"

Had the exact same thought - obviously Boogie is incredibly talented. He'd still be a freshman guard though, and one of his primary criticisms in scouting reports I've seen is shot selection/at times, bad stretches of decision-making. Not saying Boogie won't help UK win games, but... come March, Cal's "stacked" rosters haven't really been doing better than ours - if at all. A sophomore Cupps, who has a year under his belt and can distribute like he can, gives me confidence assuming we fill out the roster with enough talent via portal/Spring. Hitting the portal really does not concern/worry me, at this point in the cycle anyway. We got a whole season of basketball to play first baby! **Disclaimer - I am not a professional basketball scout. I do not claim to be an “expert” in assessing players… just a guy who enjoys watching the game/enjoyed playing back in the day. But any who… I have seen Mackenzie play in person a few times. Not a large enough sample size that I’d say I could give you a legitimate “scouting report” … ~6 games while he was a sophomore at GSB… an AAU tournament in Pittsburgh before his Junior year (purely by coincidence, was visiting a basketball junkie friend in town and we unexpectedly had some time to kill lol…) then the state championship game he won with Roselle Catholic this year. Have seen enough that I think I can add some conjecture to help us get excited again about who we DO have playing for us in just a few more days. Physicals. When you walk in the gym, if you had to bet on who the NBA prospect was, a lot of dough would be waged on him… Says something, considering the caliber of the guys he played with and against. Elite. Bball IQ - understands angles and uses his length/size well. Will take advantage of mistakes and exploit mismatches. Not really a physical player in the post but he is not usually shying away from contact. I expect his rebounding to steadily improve as the year goes on, but I think we may have a few tough games here and there on that front. (Gonna need Ware/Reneau/Sparks to do their thang.) You will see a few savvy steals/blocks, but consistency on the defensive side is definitely a question for me…. When you consider our defensive schemes and the jump from HS/AAU to D1 in terms of complexity, I do think this will be what we point to as his weakness, at least early on, this season. That said, get ready for some athletic sequences where he blocks a shot against the backboard/disrupts a passing lane/brings a smart double team, then gets the transition slam or three. Shot taker, shot maker - very above average rhythm shooter, great catch and shooter. Usually gets to his spot without a lot of dribbles. Has a high release point and usually gets the ball out of his hands quickly. Does have a tendency to bring the ball down fairly low as he’s getting into his motion, I’m hoping Woodson is cleaning that up in the offseason… Rarely caused problems for him from what I’ve seen, but if no change in the tendency since I’ve last seen him, I think that causes us a few frustrating turnovers. You won’t hear anyone calling him a point forward, that’s not the really the primary skillset here… for the most part, anyway. Don’t get me wrong - not a “selfish” player and I’ve seen him make some of those passes that get the whole crowd “oohing-ahhing” or jumping out of their seats (depending on the venue if you know what I mean). But that is not usually what he is looking to do… How he functions as a playmaker/facilitator is something I will be watching closely - can he put everything together and be a really versatile weapon… He’s used to looking for his shot first and getting buckets. And I fully expect that is what he’s going to be asked to do for us, too. But it’s different at this level. His shotmaking will translate, but can he be solid with his handle/decision-making/pass accuracy up to par by B10 play? The keys to your question IMHO boils down to his playmaking and situational decision-making… I’ll be looking at his AST:TO ratio and TS% … to be a one and done/first rounder, I think he has to avoid being labeled only a shot chucker that can't affect the game in other areas or fades into the background if he's not being aggressive/not having a good shooting night. Not that defensive consistency necessarily impacts whether he is one and done or not, but that is the other concern I have for this season. When I say “concern” I am holding him to a very high standard, keep in mind. You’re not going to mistake him for Miller Kopp at any point out there. His bball IQ and work ethic + Woodson’s coaching, make me very excited about what he will be able to contribute.

I wish I saw Artie's warning before I clicked the link...

Wow... this definitely stings

Not saying to hold out hope man. Saying you don't turn your nose up and walk away from the #1 overall PG in the class coz he initially wanted to go elsewhere. Think we've run our course on this conversation lol.