Stromboli

Because a team with 3 NBA players on the roster could never fail! Right?!? Seriously, hands off, NBA. If Clifton is that good, please let us reap some of the benefits.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Who+owns+converse%3F

This is awkward. Guys, do we tell him?

Etonics?

Yeah I've been thinking about this, too. Yes, Romeo has some Adidas connections. But you know what? By all accounts he was down to the two schools that he is geographically closest to. This is not the result of a bidding war. And I don't think Pitino would have to bid for the kid that lives in town, and wants to stay in town, or at least close. Add to that, Archie has garnered interest from a number of 5* recruits, but EVERY SINGLE ONE has some reason to look at the program. Hurt has his buddy here. Romeo is local. Garland has IU connections. Keion is local and his dad knows Schilling. Watford's family knows/loves IU. Any of these 5* guys that we showed interest in that didn't otherwise have interest in IU? No longer interested. We're not making runs at random OADs.

I'd love to stop talking about whether or not Crean was doing his job.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be the same quality of evidence for NCAA infractions. I'm sure you saw my post yesterday about the murky standard of proof established by the NCAA Infractions Committee. It's probably that way on purpose, so they can rule however they please. But it's not like there aren't established ways of fact finding that are less stringent than Federal Rules of Evidence. Looking at it, it's odd that they provided so much information about Pitino when they didn't even charge him. Maybe they are going to spend some resources on the infractions side of things while they're here.

Oh yeah, the UCLA dominance was the result of one guy, Sam Gilbert. During their dynasty he provided players with cars, clothes, airline tickets, and even abortions for their girlfriends. When Knight created his dominant programs, he was up against this. Pretty impressive. I'm on the side that wants to give Crean credit if we learn he was running a clean program. He had expectations to compete with the cheaters. He could see that the cheaters were getting the recruits through nefarious means, and there was no punishment from the NCAA even though the corruption was widely known and accepted. And truly, if we are one of the few great programs to come through this unscathed, then you absolutely need to be thankful to Crean that he did not succumb to the same temptations that so many others do. Way better than what Sampson left us with.

Just because we're on the subject... Part of why the FBI is so incredibly thorough, and unwilling to even pursue less-than-airtight information is that they have an extremely high standard of proof to achieve in order for a prosecution to succeed. This is the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard that you so often hear. This literally means that you can't conceive of anything being the truth other than the crime as described and proven by the prosecution. (Again, Stuhoo, jump in if I'm off base.) To get there, they have to navigate through the evidentiary rules that are set up to ensure that the information is extremely reliable. Criminal cases have a very high standard of proof. Often in civil matters, the standard is going to be "a preponderance of the evidence," meaning it is just more likely than not that something happened. Literally, if you're 51% convinced something happened, even if there are other plausible explanations, then you've got enough to meet the standard. This lower standard of proof is why OJ was found not guilty in criminal court, but the civil case brought against him for the same actions was successful. The NCAA is not in a court of law. They do not have to worry about evidence rules, and their standard of proof isn't very clear. They can rely on hearsay, etc. Further, they are operating under a standard of proof which is much lower than that which a prosecutor must prove. From the NCAA: "[the] standard of proof is whether the information is credible, persuasive and of a nature that reasonable people would rely upon in the conduct of serious affairs." That kind of language is so wide-open to interpretation that an attorney wouldn't know where to begin. In this case, information gained by the FBI in their investigation would certainly seem to meet that standard, even where it is not useful in the prosecution of the criminal case. Perhaps, some of these other interviews Brass Cannon is discussing would meet that standard, enough to cause a finding of infractions which would lead to sanctions. Here's a helpful PDF I'm sourcing this information from: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/BBD_Comm.Infractions.pdf

Stuhoo, maybe you can clarify something else here. I think there is a misunderstanding about FBI vs NCAA. We're dealing with two separate forums here. Stuhoo is letting us know what to expect the FBI to be able to do in order to successfully prosecute a criminal case. These guys do not like losing, and they do not like allocating resources (basically the time of their employees) towards losing efforts. Stuhoo is making clear that getting criminal prosecutions going under the circumstances Brass Cannon is describing is difficult. An entirely separate forum exists that is probably more interesting to most of us. That of, what is to become of the teams that are found to be cheating. This is in the jurisdiction of the NCAA. They are the governing body that would make these kinds of calls. They aren't built to do what the FBI can do to create a case, and so they have to obtain the information in a different manner. The FBI is not going to invite the NCAA to sit in on interrogations. The FBI is not going to give a better deal to Chuck Person if he tells the NCAA what other programs are cheating. The FBI isn't concerned with that. I am not the guy to say how the NCAA will get the information. They hadn't even launched an "investigation" of their own, and haven't--to my knowledge--made any statement yet. I think they're going to get the information at the same time as the rest of us, after the FBI releases it. Another question for Stuhoo: How could you see the FBI snaring other coaches/programs under these circumstances?

1. I was joking. Looks like not very well. 2. Your insight has been awesome. No reason for us to wallow in ignorance and speculation when we've got a contributing member that understands what's happening 3. I wonder if Grant Gelon will follow Crean to UofL

Guys.... Please stop correcting Stuhoo on this stuff. He's made clear over the past day that he helps criminal organizations navigate these laws with impunity. He knows exactly how the coaches/agents/shoe salesmen have laundered the money such that the Feds can't touch them. Let's just thank him for his expertise rather than questioning his advice and morals.

It begins. Yesterday, when the news was fresh, the Purdue boards were already talking about all the 5* decommits Painter is going to pull as a result of this.

Just saw on a UofL board that they are now ready to let Pitino go to make room for Brad Stevens to come take over the program. Glad to know we're not the only delusional fanbase. You know who we're not talking about? Arizona. I read an article on what they're up against, and it is BAD. They are lucky that Louisville is here to take most of the heat, because they are the next biggest program at this point. In their case, it looks like it was pervasive for years. And you look at the crazy recruiting classes Sean has pulled, and yeah, this connects the dots (if you really needed them connected). I know we're all feeling pretty secure that Archie is too new in all this to really have anything that could stick. Just the same, his brother is right in the middle of it. It has to affect him.

I agree. I think this is just too much. UofL fans are sick of the program now, and I wouldn't be surprised if the local pressure for him to stay home wanes. Not exactly how I wanted IU to win this recruiting battle, but I'll take it.

The guy just said that as far as he knows, the NCAA had no idea the investigation was happening until today.

"I'm sorry, could you repeat that? Preferably in the direction of that decorative fern on the table."

So you're saying you've been charged with wire fraud and corruption a time or two. I had my suspicions...

So this is why we heard there are rumblings that the BoT at UL want Pitino out.

Oh yeah! Best Bryant memory was beating Kentucky in the Round of 32, and Thomas holding out his jersey saying "This is why I'm here!" Awesome day. Loved that team.

Maybe he's ready to turnover a new leaf.

Hoosier Guy is one of my favorite posters. No shame in positivity! As long as you know his style

Oh right on. Yeah two IU picks, two say foggy, all in the last two days. I thought maybe you read a thing on a forum, but maybe this is better. Combined with our own resident insider/savant, I like it.

Well share you dork

He helped legitimize the program, and was a big part of making us relevant again. He still comes back, he has a good NBA career, and is one of our success stories. He continues to be an ambassador for IU ball. This question is foolish, and a dumb thing to debate when a current local stud is considering committing.