pumpfake

To me, the claim that a given coach is a great developer of talent because he gets players into the NBA seems a bit overblown when it's also said that the NBA drafts on potential. We've had guys leave early that didn't improve exponentially (although I'd have to say Victor did). It seems like that reputation is more of a recruiting chip than a strong measure of coaching prowess.

I'd like to ask these media 'experts' one question: If this debacle of a season is about injuries and untalented players, how do you explain the play of this team in the first month of the season? The KU game was a good win and the performance against UNC was as good as a CTC team can play. Same players except OG, but it's not like OG was the lone reason we shot lights out. and played great defense (first half especially) No, this team has gotten worse as the season has progressed when it should have improved - that's teaching, preparation, and psychology - and it's not the first season this has happened. Another point I'd like to touch on is recruiting. It seems CTC has basically alienated in-state coaches and players (that well has gone dry) and now, with the tweets by RJ's coach it appears he's done the same with that area. This is a sinking ship, plain and simple. We see it and I believe the media types prefer to ignore it.

I do not understand the enthusiasm for Dane Fife. As previously mentioned, if he hadn't been an IU player no one would be mentioning his name. I also freely admit to being biased against Fife for leading the demand (threats) to make Mike Davis the HC when he (Davis) was still an interim head coach.

I won't completely dismiss the thought that 2 or 3 elite openings would be at least tempting, but there's also something against it too. Nobody wants to follow a legend and that would be the case at Duke for sure and to a lesser extent at UNC. When a legendary coach, one who had coached there for years, retires it almost always results in a string of coaches (UCLA, UNC, IU, etc.). Also, with the likely departures it would create immediate openings for possible blue chip recruits. And finally, worrying if your replacement coach might leave for greener pastures is a concern just settle for a lesser coach and accept your fate - most of us don't feel that way and hopefully neither does the powers that be.

Just like recruiting, coaching rumors are just that until the contract is signed. However, many times there is some substance to such rumors. I doubt anybody considers it to be a "done deal", but rather a sign that things may be moving and possibly in a vary favorable way.

I echo your comments 100%. I've tried to avoid "Crean bashing" because I believe he definitely resurrected our program and got it back on track, but it's become obvious he's right where he was at the end of his time at MU. It's really interesting how the comments in that 'famous' article about Crean when he left for IU are a perfect description of the present. I prefer to look at as "water seeks it's own level" and that's where we are with Tom Crean.

In this very down year for the league, we lose to bad teams. We even lose to opponents when they play poorly.

Thanks for the link. It's good to see someone has documented the recruiting history of CTC with data and in an unbiased way.

Absolutely correct - more than sufficient data is known on CTC's coaching ability. If I recall correctly, one thing Glass mentioned in his "assessment" of Crean a couple of years ago was about recruiting. No one can deny that recruiting is a significant factor in team success and ours has fallen off dramatically and is definitely trending downward. Even IF the evidence wasn't clear (and it is), the situation is irreparable at this point. Glass can do what must be done or prolong the inevitable.

Interesting. I recall him getting a lot of chatter among IU fans as a top up and coming coach before Crean. It's the reason that selecting an unproven guy scares me - IMO, it's the riskiest strategy.

This is true. The best candidate could be a relative unknown or a young unproven coach. He could also be a total flop. Past performance is probably the most reliable predictor of future success (and still with no guarantees). I suppose to an extent it's a crapshoot with whoever is chosen, but at least you can have a good idea of who will satisfy and invigorate the fanbase initially. I shared the belief (hope?) that a decent coach who came here could up his game as far as recruiting goes when CTC was hired. Yet, I'm not so sure he's attracted a significantly better share of the talent pool here than he did at MU. Recruiting, in state especially, is definitely a factor in choosing a replacement coach and assessing that capability probably takes a lot of research and guesswork.

I fully support continuing the narrative that Crean is a good strategist and developer of talent, and that he's highly successful despite an unrealistic fan base. Any program like NC State would be crazy not to jump at the chance to lure away a coach of CTC's stature. Please don't let him get away!!!! -- Brer Rabbit

Don's pretty smart & professional. He's always put on a loyal face in defending coaches, even when they may not have deserved it. I wonder if the frequent delays and "stand ups" he's had with Crean post games has been offensive to him? Possibly not, after all he took a lot of abuse from Knight (albeit less than poor Chuck Marlowe, RIP).

I think right now Donovan would be the #1 Grand Slam choice (however realistic). Beyond that, we've screwed up 3 times post-RMK and it's crucial that we get it right. Because of that, IMO we MUST get a guy that has proven he can win at a high level (the higher the better). It sends chills down my spine when I see names like Buzz Williams or Dane Fife bandied about. Williams hasn't done jack crap and Dane Fife hasn't proven anything yet (not to mention he was instrumental in saddling us with Mike Davis). Nope, there's a handful of coaches that are all but guaranteed to be vast upgrades over CTC and there's no reason to reach or settle. We're at a perfect time for finally getting our next great coach - the program is clean, the aura of the Bob Knight era has faded, top notch facilities and fan support. One other possible (?) factor is any new coach may not feel guilty for taking the job of a coach already under contract if stories of CTC not being well liked among his peers is true. If not now, then when?

Why are they televising intramural sports on BTN? Bryant and Davis combined for a whopping 2 first half points - whoopee.

Me too, but only on the condition that it gets there before April (very likely, I might add).

Someone should start a pool to predict how many pages this thread will hit before the inevitable becomes sweet reality.

Yes. And it definitely would work out, timing wise, better than a current college coach if the buyout situation/timing is a factor. (The NBA season ends in what, July or August? LOL). I hate thinking this way, but when it comes to this situation I can' help myself from thinking what would UK do? They fired Smith for being far more successful than Crean and didn't tolerate Gillespie for long - and I'm sure if they were flirting with undefeated seasons under him they wouldn't have fired him. Donovan was their wet dream candidate. IMO, he may be a more logical dream pick than Stevens having actually won it twice and demonstrated high level recruiting prowess.

One thing I would like to point out concerning injuries, talent level, etc.: We've all complained, going back to the J. Rivers seasons, that "this team has the lowest basketball IQ". If his teams consistently play careless, stupid ball it can mean only one of two things - bad recruiting or bad teaching/coaching. And both are the sole responsibility of one man, and that's the head basketball coach. I don't take any joy in wishing for a new coach. IMO, coach Crean has worked very hard and dedicated himself to the team's success. Sadly, it's clear that his best is not good enough for either the expectations of the fans or the salary he is being paid. I do feel bad for the guy, but he knows what the expectations were/are.

Just how good does that guy think O.G. is? He'd have to be one of the all-time great IU players to have rescued this turd of a season. Anunuoby is a good player and was improving, but not yet a dominant player.

For any of the younger posters, I'd like to tell you about a magical era in IU basketball. A time where even if the season started poorly you could count on the team improving, and watching other teams with big early season wins fall apart down the stretch - as we overtook them and roared toward March. Now we're one of those other teams.

IMO, there are 3 areas a new coach needs to be evaluated on (aside from obviously running a clean program): 1. Teaches fundamentally sound, team basketball. Smart decisions and solid defense can help overcome #2 & #3 to an extent. 2. Accomplished recruiter. Is able to identify talent and needs. Assemble a complete team. A great recruiter (blue chip city) can overcome #1 & #3 to an extent, but we must get a fair share of highly rated and in-state players. 3. A demonstrated record of winning. Past performance is no guarantee of future success, but is the closest gauge I can think of. Ideally we can find someone that excels at all 3. I would want to avoid any coach that fails at any of the 3. For the record, on a scale of 1-10, I would rank Coach Crean as a 4, 6, 6 for a total of 16. We need a new coach that scores into the 20's. As for CTC as a recruiter, I think he's shown that he's good at identifying talent. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, he's failing more and more at signing those players.

Whoa. So are you saying that Dickie is literally a "diaper dandy" these days? LOL

Maybe he managed to open his eyes and got a peek at the truth...

When I read that, my first reaction was that Doyel must have never been to Whackey Arena. Good God, those idiots boo the refs if their own player misses a FT.