True Fan

Well, you all may remember me fondly as the Woodson defender from last spring. Let it be known that I am now 100% firmly planted in the "Fire Mike Woodson" camp. You all were right. I was wrong, and I'm man enough to admit that. I was at the game on Tuesday. The vibe was off before the game even started. Get rid of him now.

I tend to agree IF we get a couple shooters. Otherwise this team isn't different enough from last year's. Or if Reneau becomes a stretch 4 in the offseason, which would make sense considering it is likely his only path to the league.

Definitely a fair question. I do think that if people who are in the know (Izzo, for example) are crediting Woodson with Ware, then I will too. It feels like Reneau has improved a lot, but that could be just him maturing and getting stronger and a lack of TJD, like you said. Reneau is probably more subjective than Ware

If there is one thing I've learned from joining this forum is that I am maybe more optimistic than a lot of Hoosier fans are right now, but I'll go ahead and say it. If there is one thing that the Woodson crew has shown they can do, it is develop players. TJD, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mack. I really feel like they have a decent track record in this area. I have big hopes (probably too high) that we can get some talent from the portal and develop it. I also expect a different Gabe Cupps next season. The big knock seems to be that they don't focus on developing anyone who isn't NBA talent, which may just be conjecture.

Lifelong IU fan. Grew up in S. Indiana, played collegiate football (not at IU, wasn't good enough, unfortunately). Not new to BTB because I'm a new fan. New because I've been over at ITH on their premium side of things. Nailed it, ha!

Clearly you don't know me.

Like I said, you can think what you want. BUT I'll keep thinking that Ware, Mack, and Reneau carried us again. I'll also keep thinking (like Izzo) that Woodson got that Ware motor going, instead of thinking that he is playing hard because of the "true fans"

You can think what you want, but I'll keep on thinking that a bunch of angry people on a message board had very little to do with how much these kids want to win.

Ah, so the true fans are the ones who are responsible for us wanting to win and closing out the season strong.... I thought it was the players...

Maybe, but not blowing out Army, FGCU, Harvard, is what dug that hole. We blow those teams out and we are probably on the right side of the bubble even with those losses.

NET definitely doesn't capture a team's improvement from early season to March. Fortunately, as far as I understand it anyways, the committee is allowed to use other factors in determining at large bids.

Sorry, I thought I posted what damage I thought would be caused. I was talking about the long term damage caused by panic buying a coach without doing the work on our end to really evaluate our program's needs. I also talked about the potential lack of interest from power conference coaches if it appears we fired him on a whim. Those are what I see as the risks

We really don't disagree on this as much as it appears on the surface. I think that letting him stay a year gives you a full year to truly evaluate your program's strengths and weaknesses. Really take a deep look at your needs and what gaps need to be filled to rebuild the program and then make the right hire based on that evaluation. I'm only for letting him stay another year IF we have a plan in place to find the right person and move on. If we aren't going to spend the year doing that and just fire him at the end of the year, then we might as well fire him now. There is no difference and in that scenario you are right, nothing good comes from keeping him another year.

Unfortunately we aren't Duke, UK, Kansas, etc. They could operate like this.

Yea if that is true, that hurts. That feels like borderline negligence on Woody.

Anyone who thought he was proven because he was an NBA coach should be laughed out of Assembly Hall. I wouldn't even call his NBA coaching career mediocre. Wasn't his win rate less than 45%? So no, I would never have hired him because he obviously wasn't "proven".

I'm 100% on board here. Maybe I put too many people off with some of my comments, but in summary. I think Woodson has to stay another year. I don't like him. I don't think he is doing the stuff we need him to do. I just don't think you can fire him now without causing too much damage, and I don't think you can just hire someone in a reactionary way to fix the problem. We need to look at what our problems are as a program and be intentional about our search for someone who can address those problems.

It isn't a cop out. All I meant was he is unproven and 1 (maybe 2) successful seasons doesn't illustrate the ability to be successful at the highest level. I think hiring him would be a huge gamble. I don't think the upside is worth the risk. You're right though, the "not that impressed with Pearl comment" isn't a great take by me. I think he has shown success and could build a program. I don't think we should be reactionary with these types of choices though. You don't build a program that way. They need to be intentional in their search over this next year.

Hahahah no, but it sounds like NGW and I would be friends. Can we get May or Pearl? Probably an unpopular opinion on here, but I'm not that impressed with Pearl. I'm also not interested in the mid major flavor of the year. We tried that with Archie and saw how that turned out. Use this next year to find a replacement, don't panic buy now. That is a viable solution. Anything we do right now is reactionary is just as likely to blow up in our face.

I'm not quite following what you're saying with the logical fallacy part, but I do respect and partially agree with what you are saying with everything else. Honestly what is killing me with all of the forum talk, and what made me finally stop lurking and start posting here, is that it feels like everyone is just oversimplifying it and thinks getting rid of Woodson is a viable solution to the problem.

I think they confused you with me. I'm the toxic fanbase guy, apparently.

I'm sure the guards were lining up to come to IU when we are returning a 6 year point guard and a 4th year wing who shot 40+ percent from deep. Do you even consider that or are you just assuming Woodson was sitting there doing nothing?

The foundation was starting to look pretty solid with JHS and Reneau. Unfortunately, Chaney did too good of a job of developing JHS and turning him into a one and done. Please do tell, in your opinion, what definition of success looks like for Woodson in 3 years at IU? Don't give me vague things like "build a foundation". Here are some numbers: Archie Miller in 4 Seasons: NCAA tournament appearances - 0. Big Ten Record 33W and 43L. Overall Record 67W and 56L Woodson in (almost 3 seasons): NCAA tournament appearances - 2. Big Ten Record 30W 29L. Overall Record 61W 39L That is objectively a step in the right direction. Getting back to a true basketball powerhouse is a journey that will take longer than 3 years. We can't expect every coach to take us from trash to championship in 3 years and then get rid of them. I'm not a Woodson fanboy either. I hate his style of basketball. I'm all for getting rid of him, I just don't think you can fire him for moving the numbers in the right direction without it being detrimental to your chances of getting a great coach. We need him to resign to "spend more time with his grandkids" or something along those lines. The recruiting is really disappointing. The combination of NIL and portal does change your recruiting approach though. For example, I really liked what Woodson had going with the Montverde pipeline, but unfortunately that may be up in flames now. Seems like the philosophy was always use NIL to land the 5 stars and use NIL to land the proven 3/4 star guys from the portal. No reason to spend time recruiting too many unproven 3/4 stars out of high school with the portal. I thought this made a lot of sense, but it will be put to the test this portal season.

I'm firmly in the "running him out after 1 bad season is going to do more damage to the program long term than keeping him around another year" camp. If we fire him after missing the tournament one year what type of coach (who is actually worth having) is going to even want to come to our program. I think this is especially true when coupled with the fact that it isn't like we were projected to be great this year. We were projected to be mediocre and middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Do I think we under performed a bit? Yes, but I think it is a bad bad bad look for the program if we run him out now. Also all you acting like you aren't part of the problem is copium. The toxic fanbase is absolutely part of the problem. I'm sure Liam's decision was much more complicated than "Woodson isn't going to let me shoot" or the "fanbase is toxic". Like anything else in life I'm sure it was a complicated decision with many contributing factors with Woodson's recruiting (lack of), Woodson's style, the toxic fanbase, and who knows what else being contributing factors. Anyways my two cents. Light me up.