craigyv88

I was interested to see how this team would respond in this game, coming off of such a bad performance exactly one week ago. Tonight the team showed up, rose to the challenge, got different things going offensively, and the defensive effort and execution was as good as I think I’ve seen under Archie. Not to mention they closed the deal and didn’t make any critical mistakes down the stretch. I stand by all the criticism towards Archie from after the Purdue game because I believe it was deserved, especially since it’s clear this team has more to it than what it showed during that game. With that said huge credit to not only the players but the coaching staff as well as they had a great game plan and kept the #1 Kenpom offense in the nation to under 70 points.

I actually found that game on Youtube a few months back. Had been looking for it for a long time. Right after the Sheehey flex Watford hits a step-back 3 to put IU up 75-43, and I just stared at the score. To be up that much in Mackey seems possible only in an alternate universe at this point.

I'm with you on that. I know Purdue has games when their shooting is off, but every time I watch it feels like they shoot about 90% from 3. It's frustrating.

I'm not sure if the team having an extended time off for this one is a good thing or a bad thing. Iowa is averaging 88.6 PPG against high major opposition + Gonzaga, and Indiana hasn't exceeded 89 all season. I could see a better performance than the one against PU but not good enough for this tall order. Iowa - 87 IU - 75

I agree on Rivers as that was definitely the end of an era and Ainge seems pretty committed to Stevens so I give credit to your point. I just don't think that Stevens as Celtics HC is necessarily a permanent thing if they continue to fall in the ECF or earlier. And it's interesting to speculate on what may happen if he ever isn't coaching the Celtics. I can understand if you or others see that situation differently.

The deal with the Nets definitely got it going, but in totality the Celtics have had the rights to someone else's lottery pick in every draft from 2016 - 2020 plus their own from 2014, so parts of their current core date back almost 5 years already or almost 7 in the case of Smart. And max contracts totaling $382M were committed throughout those years to Hayward, Horford, and Walker plus the trade for Kyrie. That's a heavy utilization of resources and I'm sure the Celtics' are aiming at a title with that kind of investment. My only point as it pertains to the title of this thread is that I don't think Stevens would ever step away on his own accord but I could see the Celtics possibly wanting to try to clear the hurdle with someone else if they continue to not advance beyond the ECF or fall short of that round. What Stevens did next in that hypothetical scenario is anyone's guess.

I agree with this to a large extent. They have been building to contend for a title for quite some time at this point but are yet to reach an NBA Finals. As LCS listed, there is a lot of talent on that roster and they have had a ton of draft capital for a team that successful. I could see the Celtics and Stevens eventually parting ways if they don't get over the hump, however Stevens would immediately be the #1 candidate for probably all other NBA jobs open that offseason. I think whether or not he ever falls back to the college game would depend on what those openings were. I've always felt the fact it was a top-tier organization like the Boston Celtics that offered him was the reason he made the move to the NBA, and that if it was the Sacramento Kings or someone like that who called instead he would have stayed with Butler. Also, I think the "Stevens hated recruiting" notion, while probably true, may not be such a prohibiting factor. It sounds like in a lot of cases assistants do most of the work in recruiting, and as @Magisterium alluded to upthread, recruiting for Stevens now at a blue blood would be a lot different than recruiting for him was at Butler 10-12 years ago. Brad Stevens at Duke, UNC, or even Indiana would sell itself to most kids up to and including 5-stars. I'm in no way saying I expect to see Brad at Indiana or any college team anytime soon, I just think that is the pathway to it happening if it ever does.

Iowa nearly gets 100 at Northwestern. 48% from 3 and 60% from the field overall.

Indeed. And they were 3-24 against MSU in the game before IU.

I remember watching the game vs #1 Duke from Archie's first year where we traded punches with them until the last 90 seconds or so, same thing with our only meeting that season against Purdue who was supposedly the greatest thing to happen to basketball that year. There were definitely some bad losses that year and the Big Ten was down, but I remember imagining how good things would be once we got more talent and a better overall roster. We landed Romeo a few months later and had a top-10 class coming in, and I thought we were well on our way. I would have never guessed that less than three years later we would be this deflated.

I apologize if someone already provided this info earlier in the thread, but does Archie have offset language in his contract where future salary from a new job would decrease our portion of the buyout?

That was my recollection on Donovan as well. I think we definitely got to a point where we were talking numbers back in 2017. He is automatically lumped into the longshot category with Stevens and for understandable reasons, but I could certainly envision him here before I could Stevens. My guess regarding how is time in Chicago will play out is probably similar to yours. I think Donovan is an upgrade over Jim Boylen but that's a tough situation with such a young team and no salary cap space, or at least not as of now. And I don't know that he would get or seek a third opportunity in the NBA if the Bulls job doesn't work out for him. I still think it's not likely that he becomes available in the near future but it's not unfathomable.

I wanted it to work with the current regime but my hopes are fading quickly. I’m not anti-Archie, I’m anti-Purdue and pro-IU and just want things to be better regardless of who is at the helm. If Dolson ultimately decides to move on from Archie, which I predict to happen in March 2022, I think there will actually be multiple options of good coaches who might be interested and aren't known cheaters or completely unproven commodities: 1) Oats – Small sample size but I love what he is doing at Bama. The way his offense flows and spreads the floor was on full display while his team demolished UK. His last two recruiting classes have been ranked 12th and 17th respectively and include a top-ten player in the case of 2021. And it goes without saying Bama is not a basketball school. 2) Collins – Probably in the minority here but I’m a Chris Collins fan. Excellent coaching pedigree and basketball mind. I truly believe he his better than his overall W-L record at NW reflects. 3) Woodson – Probably in the minority here as well but he brings the IU guy factor and the NBA connections / experience both to the table. The obvious con here is lack of college coaching experience but I’m beginning to think that doesn’t matter so much. Plus he took the Knicks to the Easter Conference Semis. There’s something to be said for that alone. 4) Donovan – Would easily be #1 if not for lack of likelihood. However, Archie’s buyout drops considerably after next year and I think it’s plausible that after two years with Chicago he may start to think it’s not any easier to rebuild and win with an incredibly young NBA team than it is at the college level. IU would likely provide a nice landing spot and a nice payday if that is how it plays out. 5) Beilein - Possibly the best X’s and O’s guy that would be available, Beilein is a proven winner in the conference and that carries a lot of weight. And I think he would have a legitimate interest in the job. His age makes him only a short-term solution though and his disastrous tenure in the NBA could maybe have an impact on recruiting. Honorable mention to Fife if the pressure on Dolson to hire an IU guy is overwhelming. I think his limited profile as a head coach still makes that move unlikely.

Good Guys: 59 Bad Guys: 57

I remember thinking around the time of that game that it would just be like that going forward. Our program had finally stabilized and did so with a tremendous roster while Purdue’s run with Hummel, Moore, Johnson, etc. was in the past by that time. Our average margin of victory over them in the two years with Cody and Vic together was nearly 27 points, and another top-10 recruiting class was on the way. It truly is unbelievable how quickly they took the momentum back in the series after that.

It’s hard to imagine putting up 77 against Purdue at this point like we did in that game. We’ve had a couple solid defensive performances vs PUke under Archie, but averaging only 55.8 PPG against them will rarely get a W.

My only expectations or aspirations at this time are to beat Purdue, be competitive night in and night out, and just be in the tournament regardless of seed. Just those things alone would restore excitement and confidence for me, but they have been tough to come by. I’m not on the fire Archie train yet and I would like for him to succeed, but to throw out a name just for fun, how about the coach that beat us last night? That may sound like being a prisoner of the moment but I was a proponent of Chris Collins getting a hard look when the job was open in 2017 and he had just taken NW to the tournament for the first time ever. He has a solid coaching pedigree and background having spent 13 years as an assistant at Duke prior to getting the NW job, and his father was a long-time coach in the NBA. And, if you throw out last year where NW’s rotation was primarily freshman/sophomores and a lacrosse player, his win pct at Northwestern is not all that different than Archie’s at IU (.520 vs .571) and he has a tournament victory in the past four seasons, something that can’t be said about CAM or CTC. NW has also lost a lot of close games in recent years so that win pct could easily be a bit better. His teams have an identity on offense and play hard. Finally, Collins is an underrated recruiter with strong ties to the Chicago area that date back to before his time at NW. Robbie Beran, Miller Kopp, and Pete Nance were all 4-star recruits and 2021 commit Casey Simmons is as well. NW also received consideration from top-5 national prospect Pat Baldwin Jr and Collins was involved in some big-time recruitments while at Duke. Not saying we need to pull the plug on Archie and throw big money at Collins ASAP, but he has always intrigued me as a coaching prospect and always struck me as a better coach than what he’s given credit for.

I’m sure I could look past it if he winds up in candy stripes and plays to his abilities, but I can’t help but feel the same concern in many respects. The AM recruitment sort of flies in the face of some of the common recruiting tropes we’ve come to know. Win games, tournament success, get in early, build strong relationships, sell the offense, etc. However our primary competition is from two teams that won only five games in their respective leagues last year and both have tournament droughts that pre-date ours, and a third team that just got soundly beaten by a D-II school. And, as you mentioned the presumed front-runner was not even involved until six months ago, long after IU offered. It’s puzzling that at the very least Kansas wasn’t involved, given that Aminu is playing HS ball in the St. Louis area. Ultimately I figured it would be a rock fight with Louisville and possibly Maryland, but as you also mentioned they don't seem to be factors anymore either.

I think it depends on how our shooting develops as the year goes on. If we struggle more than not from 3 I would prefer Parker to get a boost in that area, however if the team can consistently shoot the way it did yesterday I would prefer Aminu because the floor would be better stretched and driving lanes would be open for his athleticism and ability to get to the rim.

This has probably been said multiple times already, but Florida St appears to be an even longer and possibly better version of Texas. This will be a good opportunity to see if the team, and mostly Archie, can learn from a prior bad outing and execute on any adjustments. Other than being able to shoot over their size and spread it out like we did against them last year, I have no idea what those adjustments might be. With Al out and freshmen struggling to shoot I don't like our chances of that.

I still have some hope for this staff to get something going and keep it going, but today was the 15th loss by 15 points or more under CAM. Losses of this magnitude occurred 5 times in the first season, 5 times in the second season, 4 times last season, and once already this season. Also, we understand that 3 pt shooting is bad but the national rankings really do show how much of a liability that has been for us: Season 1: 315th Season 2: 317th Season 3: 219th (thanks Devonte vs Florida St & Iowa) It's a small sample size so far, but through 3 games we've already been routed once and are shooting 27.9% as a team from 3. Until the competitiveness is more consistent and the shooting is better I'm afraid the ceiling for improvement versus last year and before is not that high.

The Mason Miller recruitment reminded me of Dawson Garcia. The staff clearly did some things right to get to the top two and built a good rapport with the kid, but there was one Big East program that was there a little bit sooner and offered a little bit more in terms of offensive fit. That seemed to be the difference in both cases. I will agree with anyone who feels the 2021 class hasn’t quite been what we hoped for and maybe envisioned, but I would also say that I really like the group we have for this season and I only really see one unfilled need into the 2021-22 season, that being a PF to take over for TJD or at least provide some depth in the frontcourt. As disappointing as it is that there were multiple missed opportunities to address that need with this class and with some in-state kids to boot, we have Race and Jerome to take minutes at that spot in 2021 and we are also in early with some 2022 kids that strike me as 4’s who actually want to play the 4. That will be an easier sell for our staff versus pitching that spot to a kid that wants to do something different at the next level. That’s my best effort to stay positive despite the recruiting misses. Either way, we will have to do better with the 2022 class.

I agree, and I think Miller would be the perfect stretch 4 if we could get him. Based on what little video I could find of Everett it looked like his game at the next level might be more of a high post forward even though he is listed as a center. My thought was that maybe he could help Race or whoever else backfill TJD's spot if Miller doesn't come, or split some time at the 5 if Logan isn't ready to take on a lot of minutes early. He almost reminds me of a young Juwan Morgan.

Would Elijah Hutchins-Everett be a viable option if Mason Miller picks Creighton? Someone had posted that we expressed interest but never offered. His rating won't blow you away but he has offers from Minnesota, Miami (FL), Villanova, Syracuse, Rutgers, as well as other P5's and would fill a big frontcourt need as a 6'10" C.

He received two crystal ball picks this morning for Depaul. One is from Eric Bossi but only has a 4 confidence.