AZ Hoosier

As fans, alumni and supporters, do we have a right to know the details? Does the university/staff releasing this information help or hurt?   Suppose for a moment that all that has happened (Holt/Davis alcohol thing and the failed drug tests by Stan and Troy) had not become common knowledge. It’s a stretch, I know, but play along for a moment. So Crean metes out the punishment - a 4 game suspension for each.   The team takes the floor tonight for Northwood, and we see these four players missing and/or in street clothes. What kind of questions does that raise? The administration stonewalls and refused to make any comment. Now it’s Monday and the next exhibition game time. Again, these players are not dressed to play... and so on.   At what point does "full disclosure" become necessary from the point of damage control?   I’m curious about what the general consensus is.

  I see your last point as key. Crean can set the rules and do his best to enforce them. But, despite what you or I want to admit, he cannot be everywhere all the time. These kids tend to hang out with teammates. It’s the upperclassmen that should be doing the "heavy lifting". They need to lead BY EXAMPLE. However, once you’ve crossed the line yourself and gotten nailed for it, it’s difficult to be seen as a leader again. As with most things worth having, they require work, and have to be earned.   The situation is aggravated by the nature and culture of college basketball these days. When I was in school, freshmen were barely allowed to play varsity ball (that started in 1972). And rare was the case where a college basketball player didn’t stay for at least 4 years. In order to go to the NBA, you had to file and prove financial hardship to be granted a waiver to enter the NBA draft. Today, there are many more one-and-dones or two-and-out players than ever. That creates a situation of attrition on many teams, where the "upperclassmen" are sophomores. In these cases, there is NO leading by example because there is no internal leadership to be had - the de facto leaders are still learning, themselves.   Peer pressure is a powerful force, and without the maturity and experience, it will be difficult to overcome the temptation to "go along to get along". Kids will be kids, and all that, but when you put on the candy stripes, you darn well better be wiling and able to live up to the expectations of the Hoosier Nation, namely, to win and to do it the right way. And to not bring embarrassment on the university.

I have never understood what made the NCAA tick. There’s been a history of inconsistencies and "looking the other way" for some programs. I’m not sure I’d call it "corrupt", but then again, not sure that I would not use that word.   Compare situations like UCLA, John Wooden and Sam Gilbert with things like IU, Hanner and the HOPE foundation. Maybe there was a significant difference, or that the rules and expectations changed over the years, I can’t say. But the crap that went on is SoCal was egregious, yet Wooden is held up as legend. The crap that’s gone on over the years is mind boggling. The stuff at UCONN with Calhoun; Syracuse and Boeheim, UNC and Williams, and there are plenty more. Yet the sanctions never seem to come. But let a scumbag coach make too many phone calls (a "violation" that no longer exists in the rule book) and our program gets trashed.

  Yes, I understand that DD walked into the (path of) the SUV. Doesn’t really matter. They were both (all?) at fault. Underage drinking. Then driving a car. There’s plenty of blame to go around. And I think DD should also be punished, but I am reluctant to say that because I don’t want to be accused of "piling on".    But the bottom line is that it ultimately doesn’t matter what you or I think should happen. The die is cast, and punishments, however weak or overbearing, have been levied.   And in the end, it’s just a tragic event that could have (and should have) never happened - it was in the power of both Holt and Davis to prevent. But again, 20/20 hindsight.

  As I said elsewhere on these boards, it’s at best an exercise in futility for us. I am extremely doubtful that anone at IU will read these posts - an on the outside chance that they do, that they will give any credence to anything written herein. The bottom line, whatever we say - whether it’s "look the other way" or "line them all up an shoot them" will have the same impact on the program - ZERO.   Moving on.  :(

  First of all, giving Holt "8 games" would certainly drive home the point that he screwed up. And he would at least learn that actions have consequences.   But on the other hand, nothing anyone here says will have any effect on Crean, the team or anything. I have no expectation that anyone at IU will even read what we write. It’s simply talk for the sake of talk. So in that context it’s all moot and/or an exercise in futility (ours).

  LOL. Never said she was right (personally, I think she was over the top), but it is what it is. And I bet she kissed Troy with that mouth a time or two.  :D

  The exhibition game, apparently counts as ½ game. So 2 exhibition games = 1 game, plus 2 cupcakes = 3 total games. It’s BS to me, but whatever.

  Wow. But who’s surprised? Mamma bear defending her cub.

  The point of punishment is to effect change in the "punish-ee". Sure I want IU ti go undefeated and with the NCAA tournament every year. But at some point, it’s more about the quality of the program and the people in it. When it comes right down to it, I’d much rather lose a game or two to teach a life lesson than offer a "selective" punishment that neither effects change nor teaches a lesson.   As I’ve already said, Stanford Robinson needs to be gone. He’s a repeat offender - two failed drug tests and an alcohol infraction. The kid refuses to learn.   Both Troy and Holt should sit for at least 6 games PLUS the exhibition shams. 

  What else do they have to do? Lead. Police the team. Take responsibility for shaping the culture of this team - they are the "senior members" of this team, and therefore the de facto leaders.

It pretty much seemed like a massive waste of time. 

  Agreed. I do get the sense that these "punishments" seem to be designed more to accommodate the schedule and the season record much more than to send a message to the offenders.

Thanks for the tip. Got the site loaded up. Anticipating something worthwhile. Hope I’m not disappointed.

I’m glad to have found this place. I hope to be an active member here.

  That part of the problem. As an upper classman, Yogi IS a leader, whether he embraces that role or not. Same with Hanner. They are among the longest tenured players on the team. The new kids are watching them. They learn from them - both good and bad things. If Yogi gets away with something, they’re going to try it too. 

  That’s the case with every situation like this. Words are cheap. Let’s get through the season, backing up these cheap words with real action, and then we can pass judgment on the sincerity of his apology. But at this point, it really feels like lip service.

First of all, I realize that I am new here - and I found this site quite by coincidence. Though the timing of my arrival coincides with the latest meltdown in the basketball program, I am by no means here just to bash the program.    I graduated from IUB in 1977, so I was on campus through the undefeated seasons of '75 and '76. I realize that those were special times, and times that we will probably never see again. But I am absolutely heartbroken about the state of IU basketball since the late 90s. There have been bright spots, for sure - the 2002 drive to the championship game and the Zeller/Oladipo/Jordy seasons. But there seems to be more dark periods too.   I want so badly for Crean and IU to succeed. But I just don’t see that happening. Maybe it’s just the way things are now, but these kids just don’t impress me as people of character. And Crean seems to be able to recruit, but in all honestly, is one of the worst bench/game coaches in the game. I am not sure he’s the guy to lead the team, and he certainly has lost my confidence as our coach.   Sampson managed to make IU the laughing stock of college basketball during his not nearly brief enough stint in Bloomington. And the current mess has all the markings of a repeat performance.   I want so badly to wake up and realize that this was just a horrible nightmare. But I know that won’t happen.   I guess what I am saying is this: If I came on strong and upset/offended anyone, I apologize. I assure you that my passion is real, and my heart so badly wants IU to be THE basketball school again. 

  I hope those commitments hold. But I am more concerned about the others "on the table". Time will tell, but as a parent, I’d certainly have doubts about letting my son go to that mess.    Let’s see if Crean can sort it all out, but I really have doubts about that. And it really, honestly pains me to even type those words.   This is my school, and my program.   IU '77

   I could not agree more. Crean has effectively neutered himself as a recruiter.

  The Hoosiers are my team. I don’t want to support another team. But if you think what’s going on in Bloomington is ok, then this is not your team.   These guys are an embarrassment, and sitting them for 2 exhibition games and 2 cupcakes is not a punishment that fits the crime.   I realize that what I want to happen will never happen. But that doesn’t mean that what is happening is right or good by any stretch.

  Exactly. What recruits parents can look at Crean and the cluster***k that is Indiana basketball as possibly think that this is the place for their kid?   Turn out the lights, the party's over.

  Two exhibition games. Two cupcakes. No teeth in this punishment. Robinson needs to go. Williams needs to sit for a LONG time. Crean needs to go.

  He’s letting Fischer act like the white house press secretary - screening the calls and ducking the hard ones - like why Crean still deserves to have a job. More disgusting behavior. You want to take questions? Then answer them. IMO, it’s a legitimate question in many people's minds.

  That may be all well and good, except both Troy and Stan only got 2 games. No one could realistically count the exhibition games.