BGleas

Anyone know if this game is at the same venue as the MSU game that is also part of the Armed Forces thing? I'm asking because we're the 9pm game. If they're at the same venue, no big deal. If they're at different venues then we'll get to see Izzo or Sean Miller call timeouts and foul the last 5 minutes of a 15 pt blowout while ESPN announcers talk about Kentucky and we miss the first 8 minutes of our game. Just trying to be prepared so I don't spend that time screaming at the TV.

Plays under control and doesn't turn the ball over? Good for Troy!

Red Sox!

Not turn this into a recruiting thread, but I'm not one that believes we need one and dones. I'd actually prefer we stay away from them unless they fall into our lap due to a relationship or something. But, I do think we need, and would like to see us consistently have, around 3-4 guys in that 15-30 range at most times. Those borderline 5*/high 4* guys that are McDonalds All-American's but likely to be around 2-3 years. Other than Vonleh, that's the space Crean has largely played in with his "stud" recruits (Zeller, Yogi, JBJ, Bryant) and when he's had 3-4 of them it's paid dividends. If we always have some of those guys on the roster I think we're competing in the Big Ten and nationally very consistently.

Guessing the comments last night about lack of leadership and the fact that neither RoJo or Newkirk are starting at pg is a message being sent to those two guys.

I agree on this too, but may have a bit of a different take on it though. I agree that Indiana isn't "cool" nationally or with recruits, but I actually think Crean has raised the cool-factor of IU the last 4-6 years. I haven't lived in Indiana since 1992, and being on the East Coast all that time, I can tell you that people really did not see Indiana as cool the last several years of Knight's tenure and through Davis' regime. During those years IU was the team that wore short shorts, had the crazy coach, and was slow to evolve. I actually think that with guys like VO, Troy, Yogi, Sheehey, Zeller, Watford and others, and with upgraded facilities and some other bells & whistles Crean has added, I really think the "cool factor" has gone up. It's just that it was SOOOOO low to begin with.

Bozich's tweet said Indiana is out of the recruitment.

His intensity might push them away, no argument there, but I doubt it's because he's giving them feedback on how to improve their game. Professional athletes, even the ones that aren't superstars, work incredibly hard on their games. These guys spend hours, upon hours in the gym. Being told how to improve is not new to them. If the research was done, and it probably has been, I'd guess a good number of top 25 recruits are in the NBA.

I understand why you would come to this conclusion given our recent track record with 5*'s, but I just don't think it's the reality of the situation. I don't know why we aren't getting 5*'s, but I don't think it's because Crean is telling them things to work on. Look at the greatest in their sports right now, LeBron, Tom Brady, JJ Watt, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, etc., etc., these guys are relentless workers and constantly striving to improve. LeBron works on his game tirelessly. I have a hard time believing were not getting 5*'s because Crean wants to help them improve even more. These 5* kids have real money on the line. There's a huge difference financially between getting drafted 3rd overall and 14th overall. These guys work their butts off to get drafted as high as possible, so I doubt Crean pitching them on how they can improve their game is the reason they're not picking Indiana.

While 5*'s and high 4*'s are absolutely important to winning, the real concern IMO is why are we consistently missing so many of our initial/primary targets? I know you're not going to land all your primary targets, but we've potentially whiffed on every one of them, and several of them were in-state. When a school like IU makes 3-4 kids a high priority you'd think we'd get 1-2 of them, especially coming off a Big Ten title, beating UK in the tourney, and having a clearly successful player development program with great facilities.

Troy wasn't a 5*, but we did land Vonleh.

I've got us 1-for-14 on 24/7 composite 5/4* recruits from Indiana since 2013. That includes 2017, but doesn't include guys that just played prep school here. So guys like Brian Bowen and Issac Humphries weren't included. Of course we didn't target every one of them, in some cases there were extenuating circumstances (Swanigan/Lyles), and in some cases we got better players from out of state, but that's still not a good number.

Development can mean different things when approaching various players. To a potential one and done it's about skill and player development in that one year in an effort to better prepare them for the NBA. Maybe it's also getting a guy like Wilkes from a mid-20 pick to a lottery pick. Those things can mean real dollars to a one and done. Just making that that point that "development" doesn't mean no 5*'s.

Isn't telling them how you're going to improve their game the same thing as telling them how you're going to get them to the NBA? Granted we haven't landed most of them, but I've heard numerous 5* recruits talk about how refreshing it is to hear Crean telling them how to improve and what to get better at, and I'm fairly certain Crean does it under the lens of "how you can get to the next level". Does the academic part work in that? Maybe not. But Crean is certainly pitching to these guys IU's player development system in terms of getting guys to the NBA.

For me it's not bias or anything to do with CTC, it's because Wisconsin returns every single rotation player from a team that improved as last season went on, including their Sweet Sixteen run. While Hayes had his struggles last season, a core trio of Hayes, Koening and Happ is as experienced a trio as there is in the league. Their role players are also proven, in guys like Showalter, Vitto Brown, etc. I think the top 4 or so of the league is kind of a crap shoot as we enter the season, but Wisconsin is getting most of the picks simply because they have the fewest question marks entering the season.

They also have Darrel Arthur, the Morris twins, Thomas Robinson, Cole Aldrich and Jeff Withey. Not saying those guys are great, but they're all Bill Self bigs (at least they were all bigs in college) from KU in the NBA.

A player like Colin is virtually irreplaceable. People sometimes want to minimize it (not saying you are) because his stats don't jump off the page and he's not a super athlete or all-conference player, but to a coach Colin is one of the guys you need. He's always in the right place at the right time, he not only knows where he's supposed to be but where everyone else is supposed to be, he's tough as nails, he understands when to push, when to pull back, etc. Those guys aren't just replaced by stats. Not it saying the season is doomed or anything, just saying Colin is the kind of player you don't replace by just plugging in someone else with the same stats.

To me recruiting is part perception and part reality. At the end of the day the reality is what ultimately matters, but perception does play a part. The reality is that Beatty could end up being better than Waters and Scruggs. Clifton Moore could end up being better than Jaren Jackson and Malik Williams. We won't know until all these guys hit campus. Nobody would have though VO or OG would be better than most of the guys we missed on before landing them. That's the reality. But, IMO perception does matter some too. How we're perceived by potential future recruits, media, etc., it does play some into the momentum of a program, etc. And my perception right now is that for whatever reason we're missing on a lot of our primary and even sometimes secondary targets. This isn't a 'sky is falling' post, just one point of view. Land Wilkes and/or Preston and the perception swings back in our favor big time.

99% sure that if the Grizz send him down to their D-League affiliate, essentially any NBA team can then sign him but they have to put him on their NBA roster. The Grizz own his D-League rights. So, he's not a D-League free agent, but really is still an NBA free agent.

His deal with the Nets means they own his D-League rights.

That IU hat is a long reach

No, I'm saying JN went to Pitt on a promise from Dixon that Pitt was switching to an uptempo offense. That's one of the main reasons JN opted to transfer after two years.

Josh Newkirk says hello...

Can we get him a Wat-Shot T to wear on the visit?

The change in character of the team from the 2013-14 to now is stunning, and seems to be purposeful. I remember rooting for the team in 13-14 and 14-15, but largely finding much of the roster individually unlikeable. I rooted for the front of jersey, but didn't care much for the kids individually. Now last year and going into this year, I have that connection with guys like TB, RoJo, OG, Morgan, Hartman, etc., and am excited for the new class. 13-15 was such a weird aberration (hopefully), don't know if was just Crean being unlucky, something about the guys Kenny Johnson targeted, or a specific change in strategy, but the guys on the team are back to being more like the 11-13 guys. Much more enjoyable to watch.