BGleas

The real challenge for a coach in this situation is if the losses pile, not allowing the upperclassmen to create a toxic environment for the young guys. There will naturally be chatter from seniors, etc. about how things compare to the old coach, etc.

To me, this isn't about being a go-to player. He hasn't even really been put in that role. His poor play goes back to last year, it's really been a full season almost of poor play, at some point you are who you are. It's multiple bonehead turnovers a game, missing wide open shots and poor defense. He seems to have 2-4 or so turnovers a game where you just completely scratch your head. He either throws a horrific pass, literally just loses control of his dribble with no defense even around him, or appears to almost forget he's playing basketball. It's pretty shocking at times to tell the truth.

I’m optimistic because of Archie. I think IU got a good, potentially great, one. My perspective on this years team has always been that despite some of their rankings coming out of high school, this roster stinks. Crean left a poorly constructed team with a bunch of average players. There’s only so much you can do when you have no size, no great athletes and not great shooters. The only question to me is, how quickly can Archie raise the talent level (he’s off to a great start) and to what level. Will he be able to rope in Romeo (a pass there though because of how late he was), TJD, Brooks, etc. Essentially can he start keeping most of the top guys instate targets from Izzo, Cal, K, etc., and can he make IU one of the top destinations for the top Midwest kids.

I'm with you. While I think this years team is going to be pretty bad, I also think Archie is the real deal. IU basketball is in good hands. I just hope the fanbase is willing to be patient this season. There seems to be an odd lack of enthusiasm right now, maybe some partly due to the ISU lost, but even going into that game it seemed odd to me. Maybe my imagination, or maybe fans are just tired of the last 15+ years and waiting to be shown the success before buying in fully. Either way, as I said I think IU basketball is in good hands and we got the real deal with Archie. Just a matter of time.

I hear what you’re saying, and I don’t know where Langford stands on this individually, but overall this is a bit of an old school mentality. When LeBron “took his talents” to South Beach to join his friends, it really had a trickle down effect on basketball. These kids go to school for one season and are more concerned with joining other great players to make a run and get that March Madness marketing exposure. That’s why last night I think the stat I heard was that between Duke, MSU, Kansas and UK there was 15 players from last years ESPN top 60. The top of the top kids know they’re going to the NBA regardless, they want to be on the top team, be on TV all the time and get as much exposure as possible. It’s a trickle down on the NBA “Super Team”.

I was just thinking the same thing. If we can develop Moore and Forrester, keep Davis and bring in a talent like Romeo to go along with the other ‘18 guys, that how you can compete with these teams. It might take a couple years to develop those guys and they become sophomore and juniors, and you pray you land Romeo and he stays 2 years.

If Davis comes out of that game for even 2 minutes we’ll be lucky if Duke doesn’t go on a 10-0 run.

I’m not trying to be negative, just being honest, I hope we keep that game under 25.

These teams have numerous players the size of Davis, and theirs are far more athletic, and our backup 5 is 6’6”. Duke is going to smoke us.

The shooting is bad because this team doesn’t have great shooters. There are no Blackmon’s, Zeisloft’s, Yogi’s, etc. Sometimes it’s just talent. The only really good shooters are RoJo and Hartman, but RoJo is extremely streaky and Hartman hasn’t played.

True, but we usually beat them with 5 star players on our roster. Difference now I guess is, Archie is a better coach.

I actually think that if UCLA really was 2nd for Garland, then it minimizes this entire narrative that Garland and Langford really want to play together. Obviously playing together is a thought for them, or Langford wouldn't even have Vandy in his three, but UCLA being #2 for Garland tells me it's not as big a driver as we might think. It's an option, but not near the top of their lists of reasons to go to a school. It's a 'nice to have'.

I don't know, those expectations might come from one of the largest fan bases, some of the best facilities, a school that's on national tv as much as anyone, etc., etc. Drew is at Vanderbilt, not exactly the same thing.

I'm just saying embargoing a story is a legit thing in the PR world, and there's a process to it. ESPN clearly broke the process/promise.

Leaking a story and embargoing a story are not the same thing. An embargoed story is when you contact an outlet/reporter, tell them you have a big story and if they cover it you'll give them the exclusive interview/quotes/inside story, etc. The release time is agreed upon, etc. It is a big deal to break an embargo.

Vandy will not be a championship team next season. If that's driving his decision then Kansas would probably be the choice.

There is a thing in the PR world called "embargoing a story". Essentially you bring a story to major outlet ahead of time, give all the details and quotes, and in exchange for selecting them for the exclusive story to run with first, they agree to hold it until the time of your choosing. It's actually a pretty big deal in the PR world for a reporter to break an embargoed story ahead of time.

While today is disappointing, this is why we should be excited about Archie.Not to look backwards, but Crean would have had no backup plan at the point and we would have ended up with some recruit ranked 280 from Louisiana after missing on Garland. Archie not only has a backup plan, but he's already signed/sealed, and he's a highly ranked in-state kid.

Looks like they gave embargoed quotes to each of the major outlets, just that ESPN chose to ignore the request. Daniels is basically pandering to future recruits with that tweet though. Saying, "you can trust me with your news".

No he doesn't, but I also don't think a freshmen class of Garland, Shittu and Romeo necessarily puts Vandy in the national title hunt either. It's an amazing class, but not like they'd be joining a powerhouse program full of other talent.

I don't think there is anything shady about Garland going to the hometown team. I wish he was coming to IU, but I get it. But, if Drew somehow lands Romeo and Shittu as well, I mean come on, that's a UK/Duke level class at Vanderbilt?!?! Either Garland is the greatest salesmen EVER, or something shady is going on with Vandy/Drew. Not sour grapes, again I totally get Garland wanting to stay home, and he seems like a great kid who handled his recruitment really well. No issue with him picking Vandy.

Completely agree. He’s going to have a lot of ups and downs this year. Who knows how it will play out. But I could see him being a guy that potentially butts heads with Archie a bit, but if they both stick with it, I could see it being one of those things where it all comes together for him as a senior. He’s got the skill and athleticism, it’s a matter of his b-ball IQ and attitude.

I agree on not liking a 3-guard lineup, that’s partly what got Crean in so much trouble over the years, but with this roster and some of the injuries, that’s where we’re at. RoJo is not a point guard, he’s terrible in that role, not nearly a good enough ball handler and not athletic enough. If it was me, I’d be grooming Green to be the point guard. Things just happen when he’s involved. Ever in limited play last year, when things would Grindr to a halt, he’d come in and make things happen, and we have to remember he’s still a really young player. Again, assuming an improvement in experience and maturity (limiting some of the crazy passes and sometimes trying to do too much) I think he’s our best option as a point guard.

No bashing, it’s a good discussion. Im curious who you would rather develop? By develop, I’m assuming you mean the underclassmen guards? So it’s between Green, CuJo and Al. There’s certainly room for two of those three to play big minutes, along with RoJo and Newkirk. Out of the guards I think CuJo is clearly the odd man out, I also really like Al, but don’t think he’s a point guard at all. We can certainly agree to disagree, but if I’m Archie of the current guards I’m probably investing the most time in Green. IMO he’s got the highest ceiling. With that said, this team desperately needs an upgrade at guard. Our guards are not good as a group.

I’m not really following what you mean by “being the man”? He took one bad shot and had one bad turnover, otherwise his biggest issue tonight was foul trouble. He the best post passer on the team, he’s our most athletic and explosive guard, and often looks to pass on the drive. Hes a sophomore who didn’t play much as a freshmen, he just needs experience. I think with some maturity and experience, he’s our best guard. I’m not sure if you’re trying to say he’s selfish, but I don’t see that.