BGleas

In the intro he said he’d rather be riding his bike up a mountain than “here, watching this”.

Anyone still want to argue that Bryce Drew, potentially landing 3 top 10-12 guys at Vanderbilt isn’t dirty?

Dick Vitale, while does a ton for charity/Jimmy V, is one of the biggest frauds in college basketball. He’s awful for the game. He’ll do his best to isolate this to Sean Miller tonight and act like this was a rogue incident, and he will go into how hard a job coaching is and how much guys like K, Cal, Roy and Boeheim love the kids. The guys knows all of this is going on, he’s a complete fraud.

Yes and no. Aspects of it are a sham, and I want those aspects cleaned up. But, this could also get to a point where we don’t even recongnize the sport. The Power 5’s could leave the NCAA entirely. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the NCAA, but where this could lead to changes that are widespread and drastic. Some change is absolutely necessary, but just not sure how far it will go.

Agree. I want to see Cal, UNC, Kansas, Duke, Syracuse, etc. go down, and I want things cleaned up, but I also don’t won’t college basketball turned into something I don’t recognize anymore.

Its crazy to me that Duke expects us to believe Ayton and Bowen both got 100K from schools, but Coach K is clean because they did an internal sweep on Wendell Carter. So Marvin Bagley didn’t get paid to be last enrollee because he switched classes last minute? Jahlil Okafor didn’t get paid? Jabari Parker, Zion Williamson, Tyus Jones, Jayson Tatum, should I go on?

Not sure on the rules, are coaches not allowed to speak with agents to gauge NBA potential/standings of their players? But yes, this is just the tip of the iceberg. The real meat in all of this will be what comes from the shoe companies.

Yeah, the real info will be with whatever comes from the shoe company investigation. Those are the guys really corrupting recruiting. Agents are more just worried about which players they can sign.

To be honest it was a little underwhelming, except the things with Smith, Stone and a couple others. While still against the rules for the players, it seemed more about the agency’s trying to bribe college players to sign with them, as opposed to real recruiting violations by schools and coaches, or players being swayed to certain schools.

The point about being late to the game is that he hadn't had a chance to see Archie coach up close. I doubt he was following Dayton too closely the last few years. So it wouldn't be out of the realm, especially in a recruitment that has been very measured and precise, that he wanted to follow Indiana and the staff closely this season. At least for me, that's what I mean by late to the game.

Agree. I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I also don't believe that every team has been completely equal since October and he's still in a full fact-finding/info gathering phase either. He has to know where he's leaning or have a good idea by this point. Doesn't mean it's done.

I'm not sure who you're lumping me in with? I've consistently been more on your side of the thought process in terms of this recruitment. But with that said, he's gathered almost all of the information. This isn't a Spring announcement like where Bryant was still taking his officials during the season. Langford had completed all of his officials to his three schools, he's also gone on unofficials to IU and Vandy, he's had Kansas and Vandy for in-homes and at games. I may have worded my post poorly. My point wasn't that he made the decision in October and has just been sitting on it. I've consistently said that the idea that he's known but held off because of backlash is ridiculous. My point was that I can't imagine why it would take this long with all the info/visits he has and has taken. He must be leaning to a certain school. What else is there to gather? My point was that the waiting is good for IU because Archie was late to the game, so I'm guessing he held off to give Archie/IU a real shot.

I've gone back and fourth with DBM throughout this recruitment and disagree with a lot of his thoughts on this, but the one thing I've got to concede is how in the world does Langford not know? It's not like he just trimmed his list and has spent the season taking his officials to 5 different schools. His list has been trimmed for months and months, his officials were completed in October. He's been to an IU game and a Vandy game, and has had Drew and Self in for more than one visit. When I see things like 'this could go into April if he doesn't know yet', it just makes me scratch my head. We've all made major life decisions at some point or another, whether it's picking a college, changing jobs, deciding to move, etc., and at every step you have someone like a parent, spouse, friend that sits you down when you're indecisive and they can tell what you really want to do and then make you feel comfortable about your decision. How have the Langford's not had that talk? It's literally been 5 months. The only thing I can think of is that he was a heavy Vandy lean, but decided to give Archie a true shot and part of that true shot was giving him the season to see how he coaches, get to know him and the staff better and attend a game, etc. I don't think it had anything to do with the Langford's being afraid of backlash. I think they truly wanted to give Archie a chance. With that said, I view that as a positive for IU. I don't see how you could watch this season and not be truly impressed with Archie, how the team has developed, and of course the long lines of IU fans. It also means he was not 100% sold by Vandy, or else he would have wrapped this up already. Will it be enough? I don't know. I hope so. But, that is the only scenario where I can fathom this hasn't been over for months.

I don't disagree with your post. You're exactly right in that this is going to be a measured and calculated decision, not an emotional one. Where I think you might be slightly off is the Indiana legend stuff. The Langford's have said this will be a business decision and if you're putting pluses and minuses for each school up on the board, the IU/Indiana legend thing is a very strong plus/business decision in favor of going to IU, even taking the emotion out of it.

And his quest for the scoring record and state title would have been infinitely less stressful.

It literally makes zero sense that this is all to avoid upset Indiana fans. He didn’t mind upsetting IU fans when Crean was the coach. Why even let Archie in the door if he already knew he didn’t want to go to IU? The idea that this is all to avoid upset IU fans is completely unfounded. Even if it was a realistic thing, why would Langford go so far to build up expectations unnecessarily of a fan base he at the same time he doesn’t want to upset? He could have just said “thanks, but no thanks” to Archie. If a decision is already made but he’s delaying because he worried about upsetting IU fans, then why is Tim Langford talking about visiting IU again? Makes no sense, he’s just getting the hopes up of a fan base many are saying he doesn’t want to upset.

This is why the idea that he’s known but didn’t want to announce for fear of IU fan backlash makes absolutely zero sense. He’s trying to chase an Indiana scoring record and state title. Why he voluntarily bring on all of the stress that comes with recruiting just to avoid some boos?

Exactly. In 5, 6, 7 years when he has a day or two off during the NBA All-Star break, does he want to go back to his school to catch a game at a SEC cellar-dwelling Vandy with Bryce Drew having been fired, or come to IU and get the Victor Oladipo treatment? Tim Langford keeps saying business decision, and everything that say business decision points to IU.

I would add to that, that Garland’s attitude about it seems to be mirroring his future coach, and the IU recruits attitudes seem to be mirroring Archie’s approach. Just by some of Garlands quotes (openly saying he’d be mad if Langford doesn’t join him) he seems just as desperate as Drew. Like he knows going there was a huge mistake if he can’t get Langford to join him.

Tim Langford seems too smart to me to sit there and watch a Vandy game in person and then let his son pick that school over IU. Especially given all the “business decision” comments.

He outplayed him yesterday, that’s about it.

Am I the only one that doesn't think Davis' impact will be that great next year? He'll certainly play when we have games against teams with a really big 5 (think Haas this year, Nic Ward, etc.), but I think Archie prefers length and athleticism, and Davis certainly doesn't bring that. I'm not trying to criticize someone that's injured, but I think Archie has found something with the mismatches Morgan creates at the 5, and I think his defense works much better with a 5 that's athletic enough to hedge on ball screens and recover. I'm not saying he won't play, but I just don't think he's a great fit for this system, and having both Davis and Morgan kind of reminds of Yogi's senior year. Remember when Yogi, Blackmon and even Johnson were sort of "taking turns" as the lead guard and the team really struggled. Once Blackmon went down it was officially "Yogi's team" and he and the team thrived. I think the same can be said for Morgan and Davis having to share post touches early this year. I don't wish injury on anyone, and I wish Davis hadn't gone down, but I think the reality is that it allowed Morgan to "own" the paint and he's thrived in that scenario.

I don't think we really differ, I just don't live in Indiana so I'm not plugged into who is ready/isn't, so typically lean toward the veteran. I'll definitely take your word for it, and am excited to see Phinisee next year.

Completely agree. I was actually trying to mention Green/Phinisee thing in my reply to you last night, but my iPad was acting up and I couldn't type. If the Green we've seen the last 10 days or so is a launching point for his IU career, and not a little short burst of good play, then I think Archie brings Phinisee along a little more slowly, and you'll see something like Green, Langford (again assuming we get him), McRoberts, Smith, Morgan. I just think Archie, while I'm sure excited about this class (with or without Langford), prefers veterans and prefers to bring freshmen along more slowly. Now if Langford doesn't come, then I think we most likely see a Phinisee/Green backcourt. Even with how high you are on Phinisee (which I agree with you), I think the best thing that could happen to Phinisee, Hunter, Anderson and Forester is to have guys like Green, McRoberts, and Smith, along with Morgan of course, excel so that the freshmen group can ease into things and be more like role players until they're fully ready.

Agree. I would view Morgan, Langford (assuming he comes), and even McRoberts as locks. The other starters probably between Green, Phinisee, Smith and maybe Davis. I’m not as high on Davis as others.