8bucks

I was not saying you added that just that including that word did not change the idea that many in our fan base match how the media describes us. You may not have been regularly criticizing Woody’s character as I described in my initial response. I also may be protective as I know the family and know a bit about him off the court. I also am not convinced he can get it done here seeing posts calling him lazy, arrogant, stubborn etc just seem unnecessary.

Adding “Appears” does not change things much really. My overall point is that there are a lot of ways to be critical of a coach without going after his character. Now if he has real obvious character issues then those are fair game.

Portal: He has been one of the better portal recruiters and that is important in todays world. High School: He took an aggressive approach which many of us liked when it looked like it would land Biggie, Liam and DQ. Now that he has missed on Biggie it certainly seems like he made a tactical error by not having secondary options. At his age, this may prove to be the primary thing that brings his tenure to an end. Recruiting HS kids seems to be something he is struggling with for sure. But to jump to he is lazy should be hard to without considering how much time he puts in overall. I think he may have felt recruiting could be done a different way. It seems safe to say he miscalculated on that. What he does about it may determine whether he can build this program to be a BT and NCAA contender.

Which fans? Many of the fans wanted an Indiana guy? I would have loved a Pearl, Drew type of hire but many, some with $, wanted an IU guy.

Maybe I missed something but how in the world do you know what Woody is more concerned about? I am fine with the dissatisfaction with the program and I am fine if you think we need to make a change now but the continuous slamming of the man is tiring. He is lazy, selfish, arrogant, concerned more about his legacy, blah. Another realistic idea is he was not satisfied with our previous hires and was convinced he could do better. Has he? Certainly depends on who you compare to but his own goals were to compete for BT championships and NCAA championships. We finished 2nd last year in the BT in year 2. This year we absolutely took a step back and he certainly took a big gamble going limiting his portal and HS recruiting. Won’t argue at all with that and it could be his undoing for sure. Especially at his age. Some of you guys are just so negative you just keep the personal attacks on a constant loop. The evidence you use to try and support those is weak. Well he doesn’t feel the need to explain to the press why he did X. He is stubborn and won’t change his strategies but none of us are in the huddle or in practices. He is selfish because he won’t quit now. lol. I am board if SD makes a change after the year. But to say this experiment failed badly and to continually go after Woody’s character just confirms what Goodman and crew feel about our fan base.

Would assume a lot of NIL $ is in favor of Woody staying.

This part is more interesting actually. If a big exit is coming, and it is known amongst the players, it has to impact play down the stretch. Plus, if a big exit is coming, I cannot see how the AD would not have some idea of this. I would not keep an older coach knowing a big roster turnover is going to occur.

It does not have to be a complete rebuild. IF Woody has as great a relationship with the players as it had seemed prior to this year then you may not need a complete rebuild if, of the primary players, you lose only Ware and Leal. If say MM, MR, Gallo, Cupps and Liam stays committed then we are really short on the PG role. If we bring in Queen that only helps. Now, if we lose a couple of guys amongst the MM, MR, Gallo and Liam group plus Leal and Ware then we are into a rebuild and a change would make sense. Hopefully we have a good handle on what the players are thinking.

Never saw Chris mention anything about us targeting Pearl. Not doubting you as this thread is moving quickly but missed that it appears

Where did you see the targeting Pearl part?

If we end the year poorly and it seems clear he is on the hot seat that should impact the level of recruit we can expect. I think they were close to getting that monster class and things would look so much different if that were the case.

I have a chance to go watch Florida Atlantic on Sunday. For those more familiar with them is there anything I should watch for? They play at South Florida which has been having a pretty good year so it could be a competitive game. I was hoping to get behind the bench and wear my IU gear but those tickets are harder to get and pretty expensive unless someone wants to sponsor me lol

That is a good question. I would not but I grew up and went to school during the golden era of IU athletics. Started watching Bball in the mid 70's and went to school for 87 through 92. We had NCAA BBall championships, 2 FFs, NCAA Soccer championships and regular top 5 rankings, IU Swimming/Diving had 6 time NCAA champ Doc Counsilman's final years - 3 legendary coaches right there. We also had Bill Mallory regularly taking us to bowls, AT Heismann runner up, went to watch Bob Kennedy win the NCAA CC championship in 88 and he went on to win the 1500 and the indoor mile titles later as well. Great time to be at IU. Womens BBall was not good but they had the prior scoring champ Karna Abram, who would have fallen for me if we only had the chance to meet.

Being thinking we need to see how this plays out. We will have a lot more information by year end. How do we play down the stretch? Which of our key players may opt to leave? Will Liam choose to decommit? Can we add some other key players via the portal or HS? Anything else weird happens

Why did OSU fire Holtmann early?

A friends son played for him at Gardner Webb and from their perspective he was a great guy and coach. He seemed to be reluctant to leave Butler and OSU had to up their offer to get him. He probably jumped against his better judgement and hopefully he lands back at the mid major level. No shame in being really good and comfortable at that level (especially if you have $12.8 million in the rainy day fund).

Matta was said to have failed a physical. I remember Goodman had a picture with him and shortly after reporting that he had failed a physical. I think. Not sure if true but I do know Woody had been given the indication he would have the job when this news about Matta broke. I know Woody was pissed but tbh he could have also been mad because Dolson was forcing another person onto the staff.

Did woody or Dolson actually refer to him as the bridge or is that something us fans attached to him?

I think many are on the fence, like me. If you objectively think about it, you can make the argument that Woody was close. We lost last year to a team that went to the FF. That is something to consider when saying Woody had not done well in the NCAA. The latter is true but we did not lose to #16 seeds, but to good teams. Secondly, Woody took a big swing at a Boogie, Queen and Liam class. It seems we were close on Boogie and still may end up with 2 of the 3. If he keeps Liam and gets Queen, then adds some guards from the portal then things look promising. Woody took a big risk going after top 20 kids and while he was close to landing all 3, he did not seem to have relationships established to get to quickly pivot to another PG after boogie chose UK. So he was close but missing on this strategy could be a big part of him having to move on. He was also close on bringing in some guards in the portal and by some accounts even said yes to the staff only to later change thier mind. Third, his style of play did not seem to change this year as he indicated it would. That frustrates many and is not helping his case. The lingering questions are can he learn from his mistakes on recruiting? Many point to his age and say he is not committed to the task required. That could be true. I remember reading about changes in recruiting that Drew and I think Jay Wright changed strategies as well. Woody being older may limit his willingness to change but I am not ready to give up all hope yet. The style of play question is certainly fair but to then just assume he is a bad coach is lazy. Was he a bad coach when he beat Purdue 3 of 4 times the last couple of years? TJD was a big part of that but the first year TJD had foul trouble and barely played. Schifino was the big reason for the win at PU last year and Schif was a guard recruited and developed by Woody's staff. Finally, Woody and staff seem to be doing very well at developing bigs. TJD was already pretty good when he got him but his game took off even more under Woody. Ware is playing better here than Oregon and Malik is much improved from last year. In the end, i think the staff made a few mistakes that may prove fatal. Not bringing in instant impact guards for this year and shooting for the moon for 2024's class without a backup plan in place is costly now and lessons hope we might have for improvement next year. I have been saying you have to let it play out and I stand by that. If we continue to lose games where we are the underdog then we could lose most if not all the remaining games. If that happens, it could be hard to keep the players we have now and need let alone attracting new talent. Woody and staff were close to a different result but at his age he may find that it is too hard to dig out of this hole.

I think many would love to have a guy like Painter but he has had some lean years. I am fine to go with a guy like May (assuming some sure fire guys say no) but we would have to become more patient here if we do. Let him build a program and be patient if/when he has some lean years. Here is Painter's coaching record.

Not complaining about getting a kid or multiple kids from MVA but if you look at their 26 wins, they won 20 by 20+ points. I know that league is considered the best but was just surprised that so many games are not close.

Perhaps. I didn’t say they never played anyone good. I said just about every summary I read is a blowout. Just checked and here is their schedule. https://mvasports.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2023-24

Just about every game summary seems to be a blow out win. Clearly the MVA guys we have gotten have been better than other recruits we have gotten but are they really playing better competition? Sure some of these other teams have a good player too but are they great teams?

Uh, I am sure I speak for everyone and suggest you stop watching TV and go listen outside Dolson’s office.

Just on this site he has been called arrogant, lazy, selfish to name a few.