8bucks

I agree but the thing that gives me pause is the timing. If we make the tourney this year and win one game, then next year again get to the tourney and make it to the sweet sixteen then lose are we still making a change after that year? As I see it, after the 2016 season we once again lose a lot of key players. Some guys return but we will primarily be a young team yet again and likely in that rebuild mode. So while it may be a good time to reload, would IU really fire a coach after making the sweet sixteen? I agree that we are after more than sweet sixteens but still I have doubts IU would make a change then.

"Former bears head coach Cam Cameron"? Was he ever head coach in Chicago? Are they looking at Wilson as an offensive coordinator or to be the HC? Would seem to be a stretch to consider Wilson NFL head coach level at this point but he does have that edge about him.

Glad you caught the shucks part. I think we are seeing things completely different on this. I do not think Roy has been handed anything Crean had not been handed. As you said the support was there through the rebuild and the waned recently. The question is why? Interestingly we both point to results and as you astutely pointed out, Crean reached on a couple of recruiting classes that have been a big cause of why we have "stalled out" as you called it. On this we agree, but here we start to differ. If you look back at ol Roys time at Kansas he never stalled out. This he never lost the support. Creans program has stalled and he is going to catch heat for that. But let's assume we do as you say and get behind him despite that. When I look forward another likely stall is coming in the fall of 2016 after we lose Yogi, JBj, Nick, HP and possibly Troy. That is something that Crean has had throughout his career. A few peaks followed by stalled out rebuilds. Guys like Roy keep producing year after year after year. So now someone will come along and point out the scandal at UNC and try to discredit my post. I used Roy as an example because you initially did not because he is some shining star of how to build a program.

I agree. Though if we found someone that was big enough as a PF and had a defensive mindset and rebounded like a mad man that would work. Perea does not have that mindset. Not enough time to see if Holt or DD could do that. I think DD size would limit him a lot though.

Roy Williams may be an average coach but instead of blaming fans why not look at some of the reasons he has had support. Roy at Kansas coached 15 years. His teams won the Big 12 9 times out of his last 13 years. Roy had 4 teams make the FF two lost in the championship game. Add to that consistent appearances in the NCAA every year he could. He also took over a team under probation though not as bad off as IU. Tom coached at Marquette for 9 years and won 1 conference championship (conf USA). He had one team make a FF. Shucks Doesn't it seem logical to wonder why it is easier to support one guy over the other?

Certainly some truth to what you said but we finished the last month of that year with 5 wins and 4 losses. We looked flat and never really found the rhythm we had when we were number 1. Of our 5 wins down the stretch only the win at Michigan resembled the way we had played the first 2/3 of the year. I heard several broadcasters comment on the pace of our practices. Stephen Bardo on a local radio show echoed the concern that the practice paces could have explained our late season swoon. I am not sure if that was the case or not but the Syracuse loss was only a part of our poor finish. We went over a month playing very average basketball.

He had to be hurt. The Gtown bigs were not quick so he would have matched up better against them than against Louisville

I agree. I think he listens but he is not a guy that makes changes easily and has said no before. However to take his comments as absolute proof he would never come or if he did we should consider him a liar is crazy talk.

I agree with you. I actually expected a top 5 finish very early in the season. Our lack of D has me concerned but the BT has shown themselves to be less than world beaters this year. Anything less than a top four finish is a pretty big disappointment. I would also hope we finally do something in the BTT.

No one is saying that and you know it. I am curious, let's start with Creans 3rd year and extend through 2016. What sort of results would you want out of a coach at IU? BT championships are great and I will take those anytime but do you have any expectations on a national level?

The sweet sixteen comment stemmed from my thought that we could attain that next year. If we reach that next year, even though the following year we go back to being young again, I doubt IU would fire Crean.

I like Vic a lot but a Cody - Gordon Hayward back to back championship run would have been great.

Crean lost more of his supporters after last year than he did after losing to Syracuse. The down years and the number of off court things in one year are the things chipping away at Creans remaining support. Do you believe that IU has a legitimate chance to get to a FF this year or next? Of not during that window then we start yet another cycle after 16 when we start over. The drops in performance because we are young are as much of a problem as the lack of a championship.

ND football has.

I tend to agree with you but do not think IU will do it unless we have a bad year this year.

I think the Cody Vic team could have won it. IF the rumors are true that Crean worked the practices way too hard late in that season then I believe he also has limitations understanding how to coach towards a championship. I believe the rumors to be true because I heard too many independent guys comment about how hard the practices and even walk throughs were. So to answer your question, yes I think he can coach a champion here but I think the gaps between contenders will be wide and unsatisfactory. My question though is would IU make a change if we get to the NCAA this year? I think not. Would we then make a change next year if we make the sweet sixteen? Again, I think not.

I agree. It is going to be hard to become a championship level team before Yogi graduates without a true center.

I don't think the timing is ever going to work for Stevens. I think the team makes the tourney and will retain enough guys to give hope for the following year for Crean to have two more years. Stevens is likely in Boston through 2016. Sure he could leave earlier but I think he is there through 16. In the NBA a coach can lose a team and if this happens to Stevens then he Boston may be forced to make a change. So if IU makes the tourney this year and next with a sweet sixteen next year would IU fire him at that point? I don't see it happening.

I like to see if we are building a championship level team. I honestly think we are a legitimate big away and if we land one and retain most of this years team then we are right there. Even if HP keeps improving he is a good PF not a center and to compete for a championship I believe we need a center. The good is that we are still in the Bryant hunt but I think it is going to be hard to get him in here. The other good was that there could be some serviceable bigs available this spring as 5th year transfers. If we land a center that can step in and play right away next year then I think we have a chance. If we do not then we are likely a top 20 team at best. After the 2016 season we likely lose JBj, yogi, HP, Nick and possibly Troy which puts us back in the young category again. This would then end two runs by Crean with two different groups that peak without a FF let alone a championship. That alone is frustrating but then when we have the huge drop offs during the young years. That is a cycle that he has to break out of. Crean may or may not be a good coach, recruiter or developer but he has to improve upon one of these. Either the good years need to find us in the FF caliber range or the young years need to find us in the NCAA. Likely the first issue is more important and the Vic Cody team was close so I think he can do it. The problem though is I do not see it with the current group of kids unless we get a starting caliber center for next year.

The EWU loss though was just bad because of how it happened. We had the game won and EWU did not look to be a problem. We lost not because they were a team to be reckoned with but because we could not finish the game. We could not defend and gave up layup after layup during the last 5 mins. Last year we had a lot of similar losses in the BT and were equally bothered. Games we control throughout but cannot close out. Sure EWU being the team that came back did not help but the manner on which we lost was this issue for me.

I thought at the time of his ACL tear that was the worst thing for him. I believe he likely would have transferred if healthy and back then I thought that would be best. Now after the tear not only did he come back early he came back as a classic role player guy. Much like guys of IU yesteryear (Eyl, Sloan etc.).

The time when Troy was open I think he broke too early. You typically want to time that so that while Colin looks to see of the pick at half court works you have Troy wait a couple of seconds. Then he breaks to the baseline. That way Colin can read his progressions like a QB and know Troy is going to be there at the end of his reads. Since Troy broke early, Colin had just turned from the half court option to see his window closing on the Troy option. Just my guess

I honestly thought we would be top 5 even back when we thought the BT was good. Now that the BT is looking weaker, I think we can slide up to a top three spot.

I think his role changed between Canada and his first fee games when he came back. In Canada he played more like he did vs Butler, attacking more from the perimeter. The few games after he came back he was playing almost exclusively from the baseline. I suspect that change is partially due to how Rob and JBj started and the loss of DD. The last few games he seems to have moved somewhat back to the perimeter at times and against Butler things really dropped for him. I think he is going to be needed this year to have a good year. JBj and Rob are going to have freshman games like yesterday and we need another confident guy attacking the defense.

Anyone know what channel this is on ATT Uverse?